Episode 241

We’re pulling back The Tonight Show curtain, not only to reveal Johnny Carson, but to explore the lore and the legend that were Johnny’s Tonight Show reign.  

Joining us are Love Johnny Carson author and The Carson Podcast host, Mark Malkoff, along with Carson Tonight Show guest and Leno Tonight Show writer, Jimmy Brogan.  

Mark’s new Carson book offers a decade-by-decade deep look at the King of Late Night. Through his multitude of podcast interviews with Carson insiders, Mark peels away the stony myth to reveal that the real Johnny was more like the brilliantly charming, funny man you saw on TV and less like the icy, ramrod figure,  of legend, stealing himself from social intimacy. 

In actual fact, in order to get from points A to B, Johnny had to hold his gaze on the horizon and keep moving or he would attract a crowd.   Mark and Jimmy share what made Johnny so important to them and to comedy itself. Jimmy recalls turning down his initial invitation to guest on the show because although his crowd work was extraordinary, you can’t do that with a studio audience and he knew he wasn’t ready.  

Fritz, a standup comedian who became an NBC weatherman worked upstairs from The Tonight Show. He was groomed by talent coordinator Jim McCawley to appear on Carson and then easily fill in when a guest fell out.  

Mark’s deep research reveals a Johnny few have seen: the private man behind the poise. We learn about his secret yearning to be a singer. (he took three weeks of lessons to duet with Julio Iglesias as Willie Nelson ), his need for strong boundaries with fans, and his quiet interest in humanism and social justice.   

Mark also debunks myths about famous feuds with Wayne Newton and Joan Rivers, while Jimmy shares his own Joan Rivers talk show audition story and memories of the bumpy Carson into Leno transition.  

From Kermit the Frog guest-hosting The Tonight Show to Johnny’s competitive streak, sensitivity and complex charm, this episode dives into the brilliance, insecurity, and humanity of a television legend.   

Plus, Mark tells us about his own outrageous social experiments, including overcoming his fear of flying by living on an airplane for 30 days, visiting every Starbucks in Manhattan in one day and collecting keys to cities from Mayors across America!