Episode 87

Fritz Coleman  (00:00:05):

Welcome to Media Path. I'm Fritz Coleman.

Louise Palanker (00:00:07):

And I am Louise Palanker.

Fritz Coleman  (00:00:08):

You know, here at Media Path, we curate your entertainment options. So many people have thanked us for pointing them toward interesting books and television shows and movies so that they didn't have to slog through all the rest in the midst of their busy lives. All we can say is, you are welcome. You're welcome. We also have awesome guests, the hysterical Cathy Ladman will be with us today, one of the great standups. She's also an actor, a television writer, lots to talk about. Cathy will be with us in just a second. But first Weezy, what are your suggestions this week?

Louise Palanker (00:00:39):

Well, I have two Fritz, so we're gonna do me and then you, and then back to me. Okay. So I, so on HBO O, there is something called Music Box. Music Box on HBO is a collection of six documentary films created by Bill Simmons exploring pivotal moments in music history. The series includes Woodstock 99, peace, love, and Rage, jagged about the emergence of Alanis Morse dmx. Don't try to understand listening to Kenny g Mr. Saturday Night, which is about Robert Stigwood and Juice World into the abyss. So for reasons still unclear to me. I began my journey through Music Box with Kenny g Fritz.

Fritz Coleman  (00:01:14):

I saw that.

Louise Palanker (00:01:15):

Hold me on the Natch. I do not give a lot of thought to Kenny G, but perhaps he provokes my attention because he is so equally well loved and hated. The film gives you a wide window into his personality. Kenny G is warm and likable and musically gifted. He is also entirely disciplined, determined, ritualistic and tactical. He would've made a good monk focused and diligent. Kenny feels little responsibility to adhere to the historically recognized tenets of jazz. He creates what he creates with no apology, but with a longing to be more universally appreciated. This guy loves to devote himself to practice and mastery matching that work ethic with his gift for melody and his artistry inspired the smooth jazz musical genre that haunts your bank line. But the reality is, a lot of people like it. Kenny G is now winning at social media through his willingness to crack fun at himself. He may not fully appreciate the jokes, but he gets that it is tactical. I don't ever need to hear Kenny G hold a note for an hour, just because he has the discipline to master a parlor trick. But I do recognize that he is excellent at the art and the science of creating Kenny G. And I will watch more of the music box docs. I'm currently working on Robert Stigwood and report Back to You from the Front. Fritz. There you go.

Fritz Coleman  (00:02:34):

Yeah. First of all, he's a magnificent entrepreneur. Yeah. He's one of the smartest businessmen in music. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and people have no idea how popular this guy is in China. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they play the same Kenny G song at sunset throughout the entire country over one giant Chinese sound system. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> every single night. It's like a religious experience to say goodnight to a Kenny

Louise Palanker (00:03:00):

Jesus. Right. It's, it lets people know that it's time to go home. And at one of, he performed a concert where he did that song like three or four songs in and everybody got up and walked out. Yeah. That's how confused they are by it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they think it just means time to, that's power, though. Time to leave.

Fritz Coleman  (00:03:15):

You don't see that with Green Day in any of the

Louise Palanker (00:03:17):

Other Eastern, not, yeah, I'm working on that.

Fritz Coleman  (00:03:20):

Alright. Right. My pick is cno.

Louise Palanker (00:03:21):

Okay.

Fritz Coleman  (00:03:22):

I'm sure it will end up streaming, but right now it's only in theaters. I saw it at the Laly. It's based on the musical by Erica Schmidt. That's based on the original French place Cno de Bergerac written in 1897. And I didn't know this, but CNO de Bergerac was an actual person and, and the play loosely reflects the reality of his life. Cyrano was a master wordsmith and a poet and a romantic, and a very brave soldier. He feels like his appearance, however, makes him unworthy of the love of Roxanne, who happens to be his distant cousin back when you could do that. And he is been devoted to her for years. And the original story, CNO has an exceptionally large nose, which made him extremely self-conscious. Plus, Roxanne is in love with another man. Now, the self-conscious CNO helps the other man who is also a soldier, secure Roxanne's love.

(00:04:15):

And he does that by using his incredible writing skills to secretly fashion the other man's love letters for him. And what makes this story really powerful in this version is that CNOs played by Peter Dinkle, game of Thrones fame, who just happens to be a little person. So it's really easy to empathize with his insecurities about his looks played against all the other normal size actors in this film. Also, an added element is Roxanne is white and the soldiers he's fallen in love with was black. So this inclusive combination is really just a comment on the purity and the blindness of true love. Quite beautiful, and the acting is great. Haley Bennett plays Roxanne. You'll recognize her from the equalizer and the latest version of Magnificent Seven with Denzel Washington. And also a great movie that I loved, girl On the Train. The other soldier she's in love with is play by Kelvin Harris, Jr. Who was seen in trial of Chicago Seven. One of my favorite movies of last year and 12 Years of Slave. The acting wonderful, great telling of this classic tale. It is a musical, but happily not too many songs. And the songs were well-placed and easy to understand. I loved cno.

Louise Palanker (00:05:26):

Wow. Okay. I'm going to check that out. Still in theaters, right, Chris? Yeah. Okay. So I am watching, have you seen this Fritz? This is right up your alley. It's called 1971, the year that music changed everything. It's on Apple Plus. No. Okay. This eight part documentary series is executive produced by Asif Kapadia and James Gay Reese. They comprised the team who won an Oscar for Amy, their 2015 film about Amy Winehouse. The 1971 series is based on the 2016 book, 1971, never A Dull Rock's Golden Year by British music journalist David Hepworth, which dials in on representative moments of 1971, a particularly tumultuous and watershed year when the Vietnam War raged on amidst outrage protest, and a musical heartbeat, which both echoed and fermented change. In that one year, John Lennon inspired us to imagine Marvin Gaye Achingly asked What's going on? And Neil Young cried out for Dead in Ohio.

(00:06:26):

The series tells its stories through beautifully edited tapestries of rare archival footage, and the voices of those who were there as it endeavors to understand why rock and roll and r and b. So ablely captured and catapulted cultural tipping points in black power, women's liberation and gay pride. The Vietnam War was the driving wedge issue, which sent young people into the streets burning draft cards and cleaving them from the sensibilities of their moral majority parents. Cries for Peace only served to inspire demands for rights and representation on all moral fronts. Did the drug use and decadence muddy the message? Sure. But without the drugs, would we have had the fashion? It's a good question. The takeaway here is that music does not just reflect its shapes. The blend between music and its time is exponential. Boomers know this as well as anyone, and as we watch 1971, our intentions should be not just to celebrate our contributions to positive change, but to give a leg up to those coming behind us and wishing to do the same.

Fritz Coleman  (00:07:25):

Sounds really

Louise Palanker (00:07:25):

Good. Yeah. Eight, eight parts, but well,

Fritz Coleman  (00:07:27):

Sounds like it'd be part of the Music Box series.

Louise Palanker (00:07:31):

Well, this is all this really great documentary stuff that's going on on streaming media that you might be kind of flipping past. And if you have any interest in all of this stuff, it just dive in. It's so wonderful. Mm-hmm.

Fritz Coleman  (00:07:41):

<affirmative> awesome. Well, I'm gonna bring out our guest. I just love this lady. I've been a fan for a long time. A wonderful comic. She had her own HBO O Special, she made nine appearances on the Tonight Show. Six appearances on the Late Late Show. She was a writer on King of Queens. She's an actor with roles and white Oleander. What planet are you from? In Charlie Wilson's war? Both Mike Nichols movies on Television, she was seen on Roseanne and Dr. Katz. And everybody Loves Raymond and Pretty Little Liars and Curb Your Enthusiasm. And in 1992, she won the American Comedy Award for best Female Comic. She has the best description of her own humor. She describes her comedy as, quote, a self-proving anxiety venting vehicle <laugh> for exposing personal neurosis. <laugh>, Cathy Ladman. So nice to see you, my dear. Thanks for Hey,

Cathy Ladman (00:08:33):

Nice to to see you too. Does it say that I describe it like that? Yeah, that I, cuz I think that somebody else described it. I think I

Fritz Coleman  (00:08:41):

Have to. Oh, okay. I thought it was you, but No, but it was, I thought it was, I thought it was very well, I thought it was beautifully written about who and what you are and what makes you so funny.

Cathy Ladman (00:08:49):

Oh, that's, that's good to know. Excuse me. Thanks. First of all, two things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I hope you don't mind that I have wind chimes outside. I hope it's not gonna be too distracting. No problem for you. No. Love it. And, and what's the, um, lang? Is there a language?

Fritz Coleman  (00:09:03):

Uh, no, no. You say whatever

Cathy Ladman (00:09:04):

Description I say whatever the fuck I want. Yeah,

Fritz Coleman  (00:09:06):

Right there. We

Louise Palanker (00:09:06):

We're not gonna kick you off the cruise saying all. No.

Cathy Ladman (00:09:09):

Oh, okay. Yeah. Alright.

Fritz Coleman  (00:09:10):

All right. I let, let's just do what we have to do and, and talk about your start and standup. You, you came up with a great class of standup.

Cathy Ladman (00:09:17):

Oh my God, yes.

Fritz Coleman  (00:09:18):

Talk, talk about your start.

Cathy Ladman (00:09:20):

Uh, those were the sweetest days, I'm telling you. Um, I started in New York in 1981 and, uh, you know, in, in small, in a smaller club, a place called Good Times, where I met people that I still know today. And then about six months later, I, my first, um, showcase club that I passed at was characterizing star.

Louise Palanker (00:09:41):

Can I just pause for a second and ask Thomas if maybe we shouldn't quiet those wind chimes.

Cathy Ladman (00:09:45):

Oh, I'll shut the windows.

Louise Palanker (00:09:47):

It does sound like you're getting a text.

Cathy Ladman (00:09:48):

I'll shut the windows. Okay. Hold on. <laugh>.

Louise Palanker (00:09:51):

I have a funny story about wind chimes. I moved to this house and I was like, oh, wind chimes. And I'm like, I'm just gonna really kind of flow with that. And after a week they were stuffed into a terracotta pot. Like, I like No.

Fritz Coleman  (00:10:02):

So the people, where do you wanna, who were tho those in your class at the time?

Cathy Ladman (00:10:07):

Mark Schiff was a little before. Riser was before Riser. Before Seinfeld. Seinfeld was before. They were probably about six, six years before I was, I'm trying to think who was in my class. You know, we overlapped a little bit mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, Larry Amero was in my class, literally in my class. We took a standup class together. And, um, and that's, that's where I met him. Um, God, I'm blanking on who was in, actually in my class. Do you have any names to throw out? No.

Fritz Coleman  (00:10:38):

Help me. You, you answered my question because Okay. I just think that you and, um, all of the people Sue Kalinsky and

Cathy Ladman (00:10:45):

Sue Kalinsky. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman  (00:10:46):

So, uh, some of the other ladies that came out of that, that, that sort of, that New York school. Right. I would say the male version of that would be the Seinfeldian Robert Kleinian, uh, Paul Rian class.

Cathy Ladman (00:11:03):

Rian,

Fritz Coleman  (00:11:03):

Which I just

Cathy Ladman (00:11:04):

Lovery.

Fritz Coleman  (00:11:05):

I I love it. Yeah. There it is. That sounds like a really painful procedure. <laugh> <laugh>. But, uh, but I mean,

Cathy Ladman (00:11:11):

Not covered by show.

Fritz Coleman  (00:11:12):

That's why I, that's why I always thought that the New York people were so good because first of all, the audiences were tougher back there and everybody, you, you all learned from the best in one another. A

Cathy Ladman (00:11:25):

A and Yes. And also very importantly, we, you got so much stage time in New York mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, you could go from club to club to club to club. And, um, I mean, on a weekend it was very easy to do five sets a night. Wow. Um, so d so, I mean, I would

Fritz Coleman  (00:11:44):

Work, you're too far to drive to do that out here.

Cathy Ladman (00:11:47):

Exactly. So you would just do, do it. You would do subways or cabs in New York and you would, and you would make it, you would make it around town and, um, yeah. Here, you know, you had like maybe two or three places where you could get on stage really. And it was just, it, you could not get the stage on. That's why I, I was so glad that I had four years of solid New York, uh, experience before I came out here. And then when I came out here, um, here, here being at, in Los Angeles, I, um, I passed at the Comedy store and I worked there six nights a week. Wow. So I had, at least, I had a home club that gave me stage time.

Louise Palanker (00:12:32):

What motivated you to take the class?

Cathy Ladman (00:12:36):

I was scared. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I was really scared to be a standup comic. I wanted to, I decided to be a standup comic when I was 13, but I was terrified. And I had one false start and I actually moved out to Los Angeles, didn't go near a comedy club. And, um, I just, you know, I just thought maybe this will give me a little bit more support. So I can't even remember how I found the class. But it was the, the guy who taught him his name was Dick Lorde. He was a, he was a, um, a Catskills guy. And it was a great class. I mean, basically your homework was to write material, get up on stage in class, perform the material. And when he felt that you had five minutes that were worthy, he said, go to this club Good times. Which was a secondary or even tertiary club in the city. And, um, you know, an easy place to, to fail.

Louise Palanker (00:13:35):

So it gave you the courage and the structure.

Cathy Ladman (00:13:38):

Yes. And I, I, I really needed that. I really didn't. And I, you know, I did not have the support of my family. Mm. Um, and I was, you know, I was so different from everybody in my family. Oh

Louise Palanker (00:13:50):

Really? They weren't funny.

Cathy Ladman (00:13:52):

Well, no, no. I think that, no, my dad was really funny. And my sister Leslie's really funny. Although she's, she's more of a character. No, she's, she's different. I mean, our senses of humor are, are very compatible, but we're, we're, we have distinct, we have distinct styles, but, um, she's not a performer. But, um, nobody in my family was a performer. Even in my extended family. You know, everybody was, you know, had conventional, uh, jobs and, and you know,

Fritz Coleman  (00:14:25):

Wasn't, I think stand ups can be put in, in, into two family backgrounds. You either came from a black hole of emotional despair, <laugh>, or you came from my background, which was very normal. I had a comfortable upbringing. But I became a comic cuz I had an insatiable need for attention. It had nothing to do with darkness or psychological disorders.

Cathy Ladman (00:14:45):

I come from the former, you know, there was just a lot of fighting. My parents had a shitty marriage. Um, they fought all the time. And it was not, uh, I mean, you know, my family was very dynamic. So we had, we had a lot of personality, but there was a lot of strife. And for me, as the youngest and the one who was sort of not willing to go down the path of least resistance, it was tough. And then I developed an eating disorder, which was really difficult, which is what my show is about. And, um, uh, you know, I, I had to kind of, I had to overcome a lot to grow up and out of that house.

Louise Palanker (00:15:30):

Wow. Yeah. To even believe. That's funny, huh? Yeah. To believe that you deserved it, that you deserved to have peace in your life.

Cathy Ladman (00:15:37):

Oh my God. I mean, I, I never thought I was worthy of, of anything really. I mean, I just, uh, you know, I was always told to be better. I was always told I could do better and do, do more. And I mean, I have a literally a conversation with my mom. One, I was living out here already and we were on the phone and, and I was, um, she asked me how I was and I said, I'm a little depressed. And she said, are you taking care of yourself? I said, yes, I'm taking care of myself. Are you doing everything you can to feel better? Yes. I'm doing everything I can to feel better. Are you doing your best? And I said, yes, I'm doing my best. She said, just do your very best and then do some more

Louise Palanker (00:16:21):

<laugh> <laugh>. And that summarizes your, your entire childhood

Cathy Ladman (00:16:25):

Basically. That really encapsulates it right there. Just do your very best and then do some more.

Fritz Coleman  (00:16:31):

Was your humorous survival mechanism in the midst of all the turmoil or

Cathy Ladman (00:16:35):

Y I think so. Yeah. I definitely think so.

Fritz Coleman  (00:16:38):

Yes. And where did the humor come from, from one of your family's, one of your parents being funnier than the other,

Cathy Ladman (00:16:42):

Or? My dad was definitely the fun, the funnier one. And he was also the scarier one. He was very scary. He was a rager. A rager.

Fritz Coleman  (00:16:50):

Oh wow.

Cathy Ladman (00:16:52):

Yeah, I know <laugh>. That's scary. I know.

Louise Palanker (00:16:56):

So is your comedy as much therapy for you as it is entertainment for us?

Cathy Ladman (00:17:03):

I think so, yeah. I mean, it's great to tell, it's great for me to tell these stories and be validated mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and, and to make something good out of something that was painful.

Louise Palanker (00:17:13):

Yeah. And, and I really see that in your, in your work. I, I see that it's also therapeutic for others who are going through something similar. But the, to hear that explosion of laughter over something that you've been through, that where the laughter almost says, not only do we get it, but it's crazy and hilarious that you went through it and survived.

Cathy Ladman (00:17:34):

Exactly. It, it, it va it validates me as a survivor. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman  (00:17:39):

So you, you, uh, you and you mentioned one of those, uh, one of those issues that you like to express to an audience and be validated for, which is an eating disorder, which is what your per one person's show is about, which you are looking for a home theater for now in Los Angeles. Tell me show.

Cathy Ladman (00:17:57):

I actually just found one. Oh, good for you. Um, yes. I just booked a theater. Um, well, the show is called, um, does This Show Make Me Look Fat? Yeah. And it took a long time for me to get it to this point. It was just, it's, I think it was, no pun intended, very close to the bone. And, um, it was, I just didn't have enough distance from it. And, and I also, another, another issue for me was that I'm so used to being a standup comic and that everything needs to be funny. I didn't really fully accept and understand that not everything in this show needs to be funny.

Louise Palanker (00:18:37):

That's right.

Cathy Ladman (00:18:37):

Because it's just not appropriate anyway. I mean, in, in order for me to get my message across, some of it is funny and some of it just isn't.

Louise Palanker (00:18:44):

And Fritz has been through the same thing cuz he does his his shows and he knows that there's certain moments where you just have to say something and let people soak it in.

Fritz Coleman  (00:18:53):

Yeah. Right. And then it makes the jokes crack better if they, if they, because in a standup set, not, not with you, but some guys who are set up punchline, set a punchline. People get into the rhythm of the joke and they n they start laughing before the punchline gets out there. And, and that's a good rhythm, but it's not entertaining all the time. Right. So you can take a moment and take a deep breath and save something profound or, or, or soulful and then pop a joke in there and the joke works better.

Cathy Ladman (00:19:18):

It's great. Right. I, I think it's like, one time I read this quote about, um, music. I, I used to have this, I saved the piece of paper and in, in moving various times, I guess it's got lost, but it was about music and why it's beautiful and why there needs to be sound and silence. And they used the, the, uh, example of John Belushi, how he lived his life all up here. It was all that intensity. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it, and it, when it become, when it's all intense and all old sound, it becomes a cacophony. And when you have the sound and the silence, there's, it's, it's a balance. It undulates so it, it can, it creates something beautiful.

Fritz Coleman  (00:20:01):

That's exactly correct. In my opinion.

Louise Palanker (00:20:03):

There's rhythms and then, and then there's, there's twists and turns and there's a chance for people to catch their breath. You know? And that's one of the things, like, if you've ever sat through a comedy show where everyone is just so funny, and then the headliner is supposed to be the funniest and you're just tired, like, right. Just let me take a breath. Right,

Cathy Ladman (00:20:22):

Right.

Louise Palanker (00:20:22):

And also you're saying something and in a one man show, I think that the challenges for the performer to make people laugh and cry. So Right. Not only is it okay, it's, it's a you need to let them cry. Right?

Cathy Ladman (00:20:34):

Yeah. Yes. Yes. So my show is going to be, um, performed from June. It's just a, it's just a, a like a sneak peak of the show. It's the first, it's this first foray and it's gonna be June 3rd to the fifth at the Pico Playhouse in LA on, in West la.

Fritz Coleman  (00:20:53):

Wonderful. Congratulations. Give us just

Cathy Ladman (00:20:54):

The general Thank you.

Fritz Coleman  (00:20:55):

Very excited. Give us the general arc and what, what, what people will hear.

Cathy Ladman (00:20:59):

Um, well, you'll hear and see how the, uh, concept of perfectionism and, um, not being enough really, um, sort of dictated my, my childhood and how ha ha the adulthood that I be, that I became from that is, um, is tortured because of that. Because I don't think that, uh, I don't think that I learned how to be human. And you're gonna see how in the show, how I didn't accept my frailties. I didn't expect, accept my humanity, my, um, ability to make mistakes. I mean, which is such, such an important thing. So I think you'll, you'll see that and you'll see how I found a way to heal myself through, um, therapy and through my work.

Louise Palanker (00:22:00):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Fritz Coleman  (00:22:00):

Wonderful. I think everybody's gonna take something away from this Is is quite

Cathy Ladman (00:22:03):

Beautiful. Yeah. And you know, I'll tell you something, even people who aren't anorexic, which is my issue, um, are going to relate to this because of the theme of perfectionism, I think everybody can, everybody has a relationship to that either being a perfectionist or not, or being the other end of the spectrum. And

Fritz Coleman  (00:22:26):

It's some weird societal thing. Americans are expected to be that way because we see how imperfect we are in every television commercial that pops up on.

Louise Palanker (00:22:33):

Yes. Yeah. And what we don't, what we don't really grasp, you know, especially as kids, is that learning comes in the mistakes.

Cathy Ladman (00:22:40):

There is, oh my God, I had an acting teacher who used to say, we wait for the mistakes. Okay. That's what we want. <laugh>. That's where you get the good stuff. Yep, exactly. Uh, and, and that's not, and that's not what I was going for as a kid, you know, I was, I was like a little accountant. I mean, I, I I was good at math and science. I was not an English student, although I became an English teacher, but I was not, uh, good at anything that was subjective. I was very good with things that had objective finite answers. Right. Because I had no faith in my own perspective. But the other thing about my show, which I believe will be more, more universal than merely just attracts people who are anorexic, is that everybody has a, a relationship to food.

Louise Palanker (00:23:26):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Cathy Ladman (00:23:27):

You know, it, it, it's some, some or more extreme than others, but everybody has a thing with food. And I think that that will resonate. Did

Fritz Coleman  (00:23:40):

You see Spencer?

Cathy Ladman (00:23:42):

Yes, I did.

Fritz Coleman  (00:23:44):

Pretty good look at what you're talking about in that film as well.

Cathy Ladman (00:23:46):

Yes. Man, she was bulimic. Right. Which is different, but still she was compulsive and, and scared. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and had to, and had to be, um, in control. That's another, that's another theme that's covered in, in my show, being in control.

Louise Palanker (00:24:05):

Right. And which

Cathy Ladman (00:24:05):

Is an illusion.

Louise Palanker (00:24:06):

And food is an addiction that we can't quit. Whereas, you know, sometimes I think people feel like if there, if you tell yourself, you, you can't do this anymore, that's maybe more understandable than, than being told you, you have to continue doing this, but you're gonna have to moderate. And learning how to moderate is, it's like giving me too much responsibility. You know? That's kind of, I think where it stems from is, is there any truth in that?

Cathy Ladman (00:24:36):

Yes. Um, you know, I, my mind wandered a little bit at the end because what of what you said, because I was thinking when you said moderate mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I was thinking I just watched, um, Desi and Lucy and Desi Yeah. The Amy Poller film, which I thought was terrific. I

Louise Palanker (00:24:53):

Didn't see that. Yeah, no, I'm gonna wa I'm gonna review it

Cathy Ladman (00:24:55):

Next. It's really good. Yeah. It's really, really good. Um, and, uh, Desi at the end talks about not being able to do anything in moderation. That he was able to do everything else well except be moderate. Okay. And that's really one of, one of the things that plagued him.

Louise Palanker (00:25:14):

It's tricky. And I think it's one of the things that draws people to the strict version of any religion because the guidelines are right there for you. And you don't have, you know, you don't have to, I mean, every day, think about it, every day of our lives, we spend the entire day making choices. It's mm-hmm. <affirmative> all one choice after another. Right. And that's just too much for some people. It's difficult to learn. And, and then there's that, that fear of getting it wrong, which if you kind of embrace the mistakes is less scary.

Cathy Ladman (00:25:43):

Yeah. I mean, um, it's, oh man, it was, it was so, it was, it was so verboten in my, in my home life growing up mm-hmm. <affirmative> to make a mistake. Oh

Louise Palanker (00:25:54):

Wow.

Cathy Ladman (00:25:56):

So verboten. My God.

Louise Palanker (00:25:58):

Yeah.

Fritz Coleman  (00:25:59):

That's So how did your family and the people that caused the stricture that made you react to your life that way, how did they react to you? Um, becoming a successful standup, which is having power over other people in an audience? It's exactly the opposite of what they tried to train you to do. Wow.

Cathy Ladman (00:26:17):

Um, I think they, I mean, I think they ultimately were very happy for me mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it was interesting. What I found was that I found that my father could laugh at himself, um, more than my mother could. One of, I mean, one of the, what I did, I did this joke on the, on the, um, on the first Tonight Show. And I actually u use it in my show about my dad, about, you'll remember this for, it's about, um, that he was a cpa. And like every CPA who's most insidious, meticulous, anal retentive person, and I talk about how to torture him, that you would time up, time up against, uh, uh, a wall and you'd, in front of him, you'd refold the roadmap incorrectly. <laugh>. And, and, um, so I, after I did my first tonight show, I was interestingly on my way to do a cruise. And, uh, this was back in, in the, it was like 89. And um, they, back then they could meet, they met me at my gate at jfk. Can you imagine that? Yeah. People could meet me, go get into the airport and go to the gate mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And he, my dad brought, uh, a New York subway map, uh, that he had folded incorrectly and put into an envelope. He was so proud. He had had been the subject of

Louise Palanker (00:27:42):

That you, that he was the star of the joke. That's so cool.

Cathy Ladman (00:27:45):

Oh, you loved that. Oh my God. And one and another time my, oh God, we were in my neighborhood that where I grew up, I, we were in the car with my mom and we stopped. It was one of my mother's quote friends was, uh, on the sidewalk. And we stopped and, and talked to her. And this friend said, is that stuff that you, is that stuff that you talk about in, in about your family? Is that true? Which was, what a stupid thing to say. And my mother was like, no, that's just an act, but it's, it, you know, it wasn't an act. But my mother did not like to quote unquote hang out her dirty laundry. She really thought that, uh, that you had to present one face to the public and then Oh yeah. Another face to your family. And then I'm not like that.

Fritz Coleman  (00:28:33):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, let's talk about two things you brought up first, your first tonight show, and then the hell that is doing cruise ships occasionally, but talk about the first, cuz that, that that's your rite of passage, the first Tonight Show Ex. Yes. Describe your first experience.

Cathy Ladman (00:28:45):

Well, um, apparently, I mean, I had, I guess I had been in front of, um, the booker then was, uh, Jim McCauley. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I had been in front of him many times and, and actually unaware of it. And, but finally I was, I was, uh, given the pass and I was gonna do my first tonight show. And, um, and I was bumped, which was very hard. I was bumped by Harry Anderson.

Louise Palanker (00:29:14):

That pastor

Cathy Ladman (00:29:15):

No, I know.

Fritz Coleman  (00:29:16):

I was bumped. He was doing three times before I got on the first time, one by three times. One first time by Char, uh, I'm sorry, I was bumped twice and made it on the third time. Okay. First time by Charles Groden, who wouldn't shut up the second time. Heather Lockley, who had just gotten some enhancing surgery. And John was just ogling this woman and went two minutes too long. Very atomic. Always got, was in the middle of slot of 10 after 12. He got prompt. The stuff went long. So I, I'm, I'm not interrupting you, but I, I, I, okay. I feel your pain.

Cathy Ladman (00:29:43):

No, no. It was tough. And it was like, it was like almost like having, you know, an an an or not having an orgasm. It was like, I'm gonna get to do this tonight. And, and, and, um, and you know, and then I thought, okay, you know, Jim McCauley came to my dress room and he said, well, you're bumped cuz Harry Anderson does magic. And Johnny loved magic. And then he dropped his pants and then they went to an extra second <laugh>. And so I, you know, he said I was bumped. And I said, okay. And then, you know, like, you know, 15 minutes later, ugh. So that was, that was my release for that, for that night. But the second time that I went there, which was my actual first time on, I went on with Jay when he was guest hosting mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then they asked me to come back right away.

(00:30:31):

I came back a month, a month or six weeks or something later. And that was also with Jay. And, and when, this is great, I was waiting, um, backstage, you know, behind the curtain and McCauley's standing with me and they're playing the music during the commercial break and McCauley's saying to me, you know, we really would like you to do the show with Johnny. And I said, well, you know, I'd like to do it with Johnny, but I don't, I wanna be able to do panel because I'm doing panel with Jay and I don't wanna just, you know, all of a sudden not do panel, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative> that, that would, that would feel weird. So, and, and so he kept talking about it and I said, can we talk about this another 

time, please? <laugh>

Louise Palanker (00:31:10):

<laugh>,

Cathy Ladman (00:31:10):

Because I was just about to go on <laugh>. So, um, so, and then it did work out by my third time I was on with Johnny.

Louise Palanker (00:31:17):

Oh, you did panel?

Cathy Ladman (00:31:19):

Yes.

Louise Palanker (00:31:19):

Do you remember what you talked about on the panel?

Cathy Ladman (00:31:22):

I can't remember. It's

Fritz Coleman  (00:31:24):

All a flash. It's all a

Cathy Ladman (00:31:25):

Flash. I can't remember. I'd have to go back and look at them. Which I, which are, I They're on videotape. I really have to have these transferred. Oh

Louise Palanker (00:31:32):

Yeah.

Fritz Coleman  (00:31:33):

Yeah. My first couple were, were peaks of mediocrity. The problem was, some of it was timing because the headliner on my second shot was Barry Manilow. And that was in the days when we were back at 3000 West Alameda where peop you know, these house FRAs would camp out two days ahead of time to see Barry Manuel. Oh. So the, the whole audience was Barry Mandelo fans and didn't care about one other aspect on the show other than Barry Mantle. And they're talking through my set Oh yeah. On

Cathy Ladman (00:32:00):

The collection. Oh my God. It was really interesting. It's

Louise Palanker (00:32:02):

Terrible. It was before the internet. They didn't really see each other until they met up at Barry Gigs and they, I called them the button girls cuz I'd go see Barry on New Year's Eve. It was really fun at Universal to go see Barry on New Year's Eve, but they were the button girls and they'd all wear buttons. That's how they recognize each other. Yeah. What

Cathy Ladman (00:32:17):

Is you from here?

Louise Palanker (00:32:18):

No, I grew up in Buffalo, New York.

Cathy Ladman (00:32:19):

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Louise Palanker (00:32:22):

Anyway, but I wanted, I wanna talk really quick before we move away Completely, entirely from the subject of you writing jokes about the people in your world, in your life and your family. Yes. Because you now have a teenage daughter, correct? Yes. So at what point are you you can't very,

Cathy Ladman (00:32:37):

Very careful about, okay. I mean, I do a few jokes about her, but I'm very careful about it. It's very different when you're young. And it, it would, it would be unfair. It would just be unfair to her, I think.

Louise Palanker (00:32:52):

Now how does she feel about, if you still do a joke about when she was three? Is she okay with that? Not

Cathy Ladman (00:32:57):

She, you know, she's like, yeah, you do all the jokes. I mean, she, I think she, I think she might, I think she might feign annoyance, <laugh>. At least that's how, that's how I see it. <laugh>. Um, because they're very good jokes. They're really are <laugh>.

Louise Palanker (00:33:10):

I know. That's why I'm asking <laugh>. That's adorable. But your husband is fine with it and everyone else in your family, he's really

Cathy Ladman (00:33:18):

Fine with it. Yeah. Somebody actually told me last week, or a couple of weeks ago, he said, well, you're really hard on your husband. And I was thinking about what I said, and like, everything I said was true. It's just true. Mm-hmm.

Louise Palanker (00:33:29):

<affirmative>.

Cathy Ladman (00:33:29):

Yeah. The point, you know, I talk, I talk about, I do the, this bit about how much I love my dog with whom I adore mm-hmm. <affirmative> and how I just watch him. So I'm gonna abbreviate it, um, which will screw up the timing, but it'll, you'll get the gist of it. And how I wa you know, I could just sit and watch him sleep and just how much I love him. And I just can't believe how much I love him. And I, I feel like, like I could never love another creature as much as I love him. And then, and then I walk down the hallway and I look into the bedroom and I see my husband taking a nap and I'm filled with a resentment <laugh>. And it's sad but true.

Louise Palanker (00:34:03):

<laugh> dogs do nothing but nap. And yet I know tore them.

Cathy Ladman (00:34:07):

So is my husband <laugh>.

Fritz Coleman  (00:34:11):

So talk about your cruise experience.

Louise Palanker (00:34:13):

Oh yeah. The great cruise scandal of 2020

Fritz Coleman  (00:34:16):

Because now you can, you can correct me about this. It used to be W w W, uh, and this is where I got into trouble when I auditioned for cruises. You couldn't even do a double entendre. You couldn't do anything that suggested that maybe humans have sex, occasionally even married humans have sex. You had to be so clean. Well, but now they don't do that anymore right now, don't you? You can loosen up a little bit. Or what happens is you, you, you do an adult show like after 10 o'clock at night on a

Cathy Ladman (00:34:42):

Course. Right? Okay. Here's, okay, here's the deal. I used to do cruises in the a in the eighties, not a lot, but I did some mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I had a great time. I didn't audition for cruises. I guess they just, my agents just booked me as a comic on a cruise. I didn't have to audition for the cruise company or anything like that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, then closer to now, um, I've had a, i I have not done well on cruises. My act just does not translate well on cruises. I'm too, it's too

Fritz Coleman  (00:35:12):

Dry. People are trying to escape. It's,

Louise Palanker (00:35:14):

Or is it the people? It's too dry. The people are from the middle of the country and the people from the coasts maybe are more attuned to your references, perhaps. Maybe.

Cathy Ladman (00:35:24):

So. Yeah. It may be. So, but also what happened to me recently, so I go on this cruise, I'll just tell you the mo the most recent one I go on this cruise, it's, it literally happened two weeks ago. And, um, uh, I did a couple of shows the first night, which is terrible to do shows the first night. And, um, very tepid response from the audience. But I've really, um, lowered my expectations because cruise audiences, it's not like, it's not like what you're gonna get in a club or a theater on land, it's just not the same mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, but then the rest of the time I was on the cruise, people kept coming up to me and saying how much they love my show. It was like, really? You know? Well, great. I was very, it was surprising because they didn't Yeah. They, they, I wish they had been more vocal, but, um, but it was nice to hear. Um, then last week I get an email from my agent saying that they had gotten complaints about me. And these are the two, these are the two jokes that were cited. Okay. The one is, is the one about, um, my husband and Hitler.

Louise Palanker (00:36:39):

Okay.

Cathy Ladman (00:36:40):

The similarities <laugh> between his relationship with Ava Braun and my relationship with my husband. Okay. And the other one is about my daughter's Chinese adoption.

Louise Palanker (00:36:51):

Oh. That

Cathy Ladman (00:36:51):

You ordered. And they found them both. They found them both offensive. Now what the hell? The Hitler one I can underst I, I actually can't even understand because, because I'm a, I'm, I'm against Hitler. I'm against Hitler. Let me, lemme me, let me go on. Let me go public and say that I'm against Hitler <laugh>. And, and how can you find that offensive? No joke. It, it just doesn't, doesn't make sense. But then the jokes that I do about my daughter's Chinese adoption, I don't even see what, I don't even know what they're talking about.

Louise Palanker (00:37:23):

Well, I get it. I think that what, you know, we are kind of living through a time where everyone's being really cautious because the crew doesn't wanna get canceled. I'd rather cancel Cathy Ladman than have, you know, a thousand people tweeting and then canceling, you know, this cruise line. Right.

Cathy Ladman (00:37:40):

So, well that's, you know, that's what happened. Yeah. They canceled me. And to tell you the truth, I'm relieved. Okay. Because as much as I enjoy working, this was not enjoyable for me. This was so anxiety provoking. Yeah. I worked so hard to put together. You had to put together a lot of time. I had to put together 2 45 minute sets, which is a lot of time for me mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, and I was working really hard. I mean, I really, I'm proud of myself. I really, you know, put my mind to the task and I did it, but it was not fun. And, and I don't like working for people who don't want to hear me.

Louise Palanker (00:38:16):

No. But here's what I, here's what I think is gonna happen for comedians. I think that if the cruise line thinks that anybody can walk up to the office and say, I was offended by this joke because my sister has adopted a, a child from China. If they think that they can respond to that, just like if Florida thinks that, you know, every parent is gonna get to dictate the curriculum, they will soon realize they can't book any comedians because that's what's

Cathy Ladman (00:38:40):

Happening. Yeah. That's what's happening. They are burning through comics.

Louise Palanker (00:38:43):

Right. There's just, it's just not possible

Cathy Ladman (00:38:45):

That you can, and, and to tell you the truth, the comics that are performing well on cruise ships are doing things that are either safe or really, um,

Louise Palanker (00:38:56):

Puns.

Cathy Ladman (00:38:57):

I mean, certainly not thoughtful. You're right. They're not particularly thoughtful. Um, it's not thoughtful material. It's, it's kind of easy and accessible and Well, and I I'm not interested in that. Right. I just don't wanna do that.

Fritz Coleman  (00:39:09):

Right. You're too smart for that. Well, well, I, I knew we were too politically correct when Seinfeld said he would no longer do college campuses because people are too sensitive. Right. I thought, wow, they weren't in a bad place because he's maybe the least expensive functioning comedian working, you know?

Cathy Ladman (00:39:25):

Yep. I mean, I think that, um, certainly you hope that college campuses are going to

Fritz Coleman  (00:39:31):

Be Yeah. They should be free thought there. Nope. Yes.

Louise Palanker (00:39:34):

No. Well that's just the irony. Right. So I want, and

Cathy Ladman (00:39:37):

So, and Jerry's not, I mean, as far as Not

Fritz Coleman  (00:39:40):

At all. Not

Louise Palanker (00:39:41):

At all. So while we're talking about things that are not offensive, you were in the aristocrats. Yes. So I would love to hear about that experience cuz the, the movie is pretty iconic and I bet they recorded your bit without you having any frame of reference about how it was gonna fall into the whole landscape of the thing. So Very true. Yes. What did, how did you prepare and then what did you think of the movie once it, once it was finished?

Cathy Ladman (00:40:04):

Um, well we went over to Carrie Snow's apartment.

Louise Palanker (00:40:08):

Ooh. Fun.

Cathy Ladman (00:40:09):

And it was Sue Kalinsky, Carrie Snow and I telling the joke together. Right. And oh my God, we had so much fun. <laugh>, we smoked some pot. May I say that? No.

Louise Palanker (00:40:21):

And I think so.

Cathy Ladman (00:40:22):

<laugh> <laugh> what? I can't, I

Louise Palanker (00:40:25):

Mean, it's, it's, we're it's legal now. Can

Fritz Coleman  (00:40:27):

You can do whatever you want. Sure.

Louise Palanker (00:40:28):

Please.

Cathy Ladman (00:40:28):

Oh, well I guess it wasn't legal back then, wasn't it?

Louise Palanker (00:40:31):

Doesn't matter to us.

Cathy Ladman (00:40:33):

All right. I don't care. Yeah. Whatever. And, um, and we were having, so we were having so much fun. Oh my God. We were having so much fun and Provenza was there and Pen Gillette was there. Um, and we were all laughing so hard and, and it, it was just a riot. It was just a riot. But little did we, little did anybody know that this was going to be a vehicle for Bob Sagt <laugh> rest his soul. Yeah. Um, to really find his true audience

Louise Palanker (00:41:04):

<laugh>. That's right. It was, wasn't it? No, I think they kept, because Yeah. They kept cutting back to him cuz it just got more and more, you know? Yes. Wretchedly disturbing.

Cathy Ladman (00:41:13):

Yes. And, and the thing is that, you know, we all knew Saggot. Sure. But any, but America New Saggot only from, you know, that

Fritz Coleman  (00:41:22):

Was the irony of Bob Saggot. Okay. That was what Yes. That's what gave him Snap. Because people, you know, and, and you know, now he's got a magazine out in grocery stores called America's Dad. Looking back over his life, people had no idea. And then the irony of this really dark, dirty sense of humor made him so funny. Yes. It's cleared the crap out of 50% of

Louise Palanker (00:41:43):

The audience, I think for me, because by the time that movie came out, I was well aware of Bob's act on stage, but I guess the rest of the country wasn't yet. And that's what introduced them.

Cathy Ladman (00:41:53):

No, yeah. I mean, so that really gave him, it was, it was incredible publicity. It was right on target for him.

Louise Palanker (00:42:00):

So what, what was the reaction though? Were people disturbed or were people excited, or did it immediately find a cult audience? I, I was in love with the movie. I, I thought it was the most fascinating concept or, or thesis to present a film that's everyone telling the same joke, where the beginning is the same and the end is the same, and the middle is whatever you wanna make was just, it's, it's a

Cathy Ladman (00:42:24):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it, it's, sorry Louise, I didn't mean to

Louise Palanker (00:42:27):

Interrupt you. No, it's just like, for me, I've, I'd ne I hadn't seen a film really break every mold in terms of what can a documentary be. And I was completely delighted by it.

Cathy Ladman (00:42:37):

And it was a, it was a great, um, look at storytelling. Yeah. And you know, how, how, you know, verbal storytelling is, is so, is such an essential art,

Fritz Coleman  (00:42:46):

Especially George Carlin you really, you, you, you began to understand how important words are to him and telling the story. Yes. I loved his part of it.

Louise Palanker (00:42:54):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So how did the three of you come about deciding how you were gonna tell the middle of the joke?

Cathy Ladman (00:43:00):

We didn't really plan it.

Louise Palanker (00:43:01):

Okay.

Cathy Ladman (00:43:02):

I mean, we really free wheeled it. We really free wheeled it and it was, you know, Louise, it was a long time ago. Yeah. And I don't, I, and, and we did not overthink this <laugh>

Louise Palanker (00:43:12):

And that's,

Cathy Ladman (00:43:12):

We did not overthink this. That's the best. We really, we really just were in the moment and having a great time together when we were, the three of us were really great friends and very comfortable together and, uh, and very and very good friends with Provenza. So yeah, it was, it was just a blast.

Louise Palanker (00:43:28):

It was a great fit. Yeah. Well, what a great piece. Blast of history to, to have taken part in really

Cathy Ladman (00:43:34):

Fun. Oh, I know, I know. I feel very lucky. I feel very lucky.

Fritz Coleman  (00:43:37):

So you got to work with one of my heroes and you got to work with him twice. Mike Nichols, did you read his, the biography of Mike

Cathy Ladman (00:43:47):

McNichols? I'm in, I'm in the midst of it. Holy

Fritz Coleman  (00:43:49):

Holy cow. He, he was a brilliant man. He was truthfully a genius, I think. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So what were your impressions? You did Charlie Wilson's

Cathy Ladman (00:43:56):

Well, I mean, I have a, I have a great story to tell you about Mike Nichols. Um, the album is over there. I'm just looking at it in my hallway. It's Nichols and May examine Doctors. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, when I was eight years old, I used to listen to this. Yeah. Uh, my parents had the album and I used to sit and listen to it and I loved it and I got it. I was eight mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I got it. Yeah. I really got it. And I memorized the album. Oh. And when I, and I still know it today. I mean, I, if you put it on, I could still, I could still mouth it along. I'm, I'm sure every night my mom would come up my room and, and I would say my prayers and I would do a selection off the album

Fritz Coleman  (00:44:36):

<laugh>.

Cathy Ladman (00:44:37):

And she kind of looked at me like, okay, um, <laugh>,

Louise Palanker (00:44:42):

What have we got here?

Cathy Ladman (00:44:44):

Not really knowing what to make of this <laugh>. But so years later, um, I got ready to do my first tonight show and I w and I was gonna put on some music and while I was putting on my makeup and, uh, I thought, I know what I'll do. I'm gonna put on nickels and may examine doctors so that, you know, cuz that was like, you know, that was

Fritz Coleman  (00:45:06):

Like, oh, inspirational

Cathy Ladman (00:45:07):

Time in crystallization. Yes. So then, um, I got a chance to audition for Mike Nichols for What Planet are you from? And I, and I ended up getting the part Wow. And I'm on the set that day. And one of the cuts of the, the first cut of the album is called Gauze. And if, if you don't know the album, it's about the surgeon and his nur attending nurse and, um, in the, in the operating room. And he's asking her for things and, and there's a, like a, a sexual romantic tension between them <laugh>. So, um, so I'm stand, I happened to be standing right next to Mike on, on Outdoors, on this patio on the set. And he had hurt his foot, so he was wearing a boot on one foot. So he wasn't incredibly mobile. So I just happened to be standing shoulder to shoulder with him, setting up a shot.

(00:45:59):

And outta nowhere, I just, my mouth just said gauze <laugh>. And he said, gauze. And I said, more gauze. And he said, more gauze. And I said, more gauze. He said, more gauze. And I said, do you have any more gauze? That's all the gauze. I don't know, I had a whole roll of gauze what happened? And we're going back and, and then, and then I got mixed up because I was actually Mike Nichols and he was doing Elaine Mays part. And I said, I said, I said, you don't know what it's like to be doing this with Mike Nichols. And he said, you dunno what it's like to be Mike Nichols <laugh>. And

Louise Palanker (00:46:36):

That's like singing, please, please Me with The

Cathy Ladman (00:46:37):

Beatles. I know. It's, it's, that's cool. I'm like, as I I'm telling you the story, it's like the hairs on my neck are standing up and my husband and my, my stepdaughter happened to be visiting me on the set with some house up in the Analo Valley. And I just ran to tell them what happened because it was just unbelievable. It was this, this early, early, um, little germ of an idea that I had when I was listening to that album that, that I entered that world of comedy surreal. And here I was working with,

Fritz Coleman  (00:47:06):

He had to be flattered by that though. That's pretty, that

Cathy Ladman (00:47:09):

Oh, I, I, I'm pretty sure he was. So

Fritz Coleman  (00:47:11):

How was he to work with as an actor?

Cathy Ladman (00:47:15):

Um, he was, he was good, but I, I'll tell you, he was, he was good until I couldn't give him what he wanted. And then it felt really bad. <laugh>, uh, oh. It was one scene where I just, it just wasn't, it wasn't working and that, that didn't feel good. And he wasn't, um, I think he had, like, we had done it several times and he didn't wanna continue with the scene. And, and then the scene ended up not being in the movie mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So of course, I, I internalized everything about this. I think, oh, I ruined the scene, blah, blah, blah. Who knows why they didn't put the scene in a movie <laugh>. But he kept asking me to do it again. And I don't know how, what you guys are like, but when you, when I keep getting asked to do the same thing over again, it's like when you ask the centipede how it manages to walk with 100 feet mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and then you become really self-conscious about it. Right. <laugh>. So that's what happened to me.

Louise Palanker (00:48:10):

So maybe he just didn't, he didn't know how to give the specific note that would've gotten you there.

Cathy Ladman (00:48:16):

Maybe he didn't. Yeah. You know, maybe he didn't, but, but I found working with him incredibly exciting. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'll tell you on Charlie Wil Wilson's war, which if you blank, you're gonna miss me in it, I, um, was surprised at how he was treating the extras. Mm-hmm.

Louise Palanker (00:48:36):

<affirmative>,

Cathy Ladman (00:48:37):

It was, um, it was, it was kind of like when you meet your heroes and, and sometimes they fall short mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he was really strict and brusque with them.

Louise Palanker (00:48:50):

Yeah.

Cathy Ladman (00:48:51):

And that, that made me a little sad. I hope that's okay. That I'm sharing this here.

Louise Palanker (00:48:56):

I mean, I think, I think it's know the reality. I think it's very real and very interesting and I, I've certainly, you know, read books and watched documentaries about him, so I'm familiar with his, the Bri the bri some of the bristles, and

Cathy Ladman (00:49:10):

He's very demanding.

Louise Palanker (00:49:11):

Yeah. Right. I

Cathy Ladman (00:49:12):

Mean, he was very, he was very demanding,

Louise Palanker (00:49:15):

But you know, and that's okay to discuss because it's part of what made him him so

Fritz Coleman  (00:49:20):

Right. And he was so smart. You, you could tell he was a genius.

Cathy Ladman (00:49:22):

Oh my God.

Fritz Coleman  (00:49:23):

I mean, that's what I got outta the book. And so it's, it's like the rest of humanity can't live up to his expectations. It would probably be so intimidating,

Louise Palanker (00:49:30):

But I to work for him. But I, I was thinking about the parallels of him being a perfectionist and then you Yes. Working through that.

Cathy Ladman (00:49:37):

I was just, I was just thinking that too, Luis, that's very interesting. You know, I brought that album to the Comedy Awards the year that he was being honored there mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and made my way over to his table and he was sitting there with Diane Sawyer and I asked him to please autograph it, and he did. And she was just so delighted. Diane Sawyer Soy was so delighted to, to see the interaction between us and it was, I think she was a great, uh, partner for him. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (00:50:08):

Yeah. I think that was,

Cathy Ladman (00:50:09):

I'm glad that, I'm glad that he had found her.

Louise Palanker (00:50:11):

Yeah. I think she,

Cathy Ladman (00:50:12):

I know that those were happy times in his life.

Louise Palanker (00:50:14):

Yeah. I think she got him.

Fritz Coleman  (00:50:16):

Okay. Another, another hero of mine you've worked with, and I, I suppose you worked with him for a bit in standup Larry David.

Cathy Ladman (00:50:24):

Oh, yeah. Actually, I did not work with him in standup. He was before me mm-hmm. <affirmative> in standup. But I, I remember hearing stories about how he would sabotage himself. Oh yeah. You know, as a standup, you know, he would, like, I remember one time the Letterman people came in to catch, to catch Rising Star to, you know, to audition and, and, uh, and he's having a set and he's not liking the way it's going, and he starts badgering the audience.

Fritz Coleman  (00:50:51):

I saw him do that in the Westwood comedy story. He said, you people don't understand a thing I'm saying. He just walked off the stage right in the middle of a set.

Cathy Ladman (00:50:57):

I mean, he was not, you know, he, he was not destined to be No. He was better than, he was better than most of the rooms, I think. Mm-hmm.

Louise Palanker (00:51:06):

<affirmative>. Yeah. It feels like, you know, he just continues finding his voice and finding his footing Yes. And what works for him.

Cathy Ladman (00:51:12):

Yes. And, and I think he found his milieu. Definitely. Yeah. But he's, he's a sweet man. He does, does everything he can to give his compadre's work. Um, and, and he was, he was so much fun to work with.

Fritz Coleman  (00:51:28):

Is the legend true about the amount of improvisation on Curb Your Enthusiasm work? Oh, yeah. He sets up the, the, the, the beginning and the end, and then you fill it in yourself.

Cathy Ladman (00:51:37):

Yes. My daughter's cans talking to me. <laugh>. Um, yes. You just know the bones of the, you know, the bones of the scene and you, you know where it starts, you know where it ends. And then you do a take and then they go, that's great. Okay. Remember to leave this in, let's leave that out and remember to, um, address this, and then you do it again, and then you kind of like build, you build it each, each time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it's, it's really, really fun, the stuff that, that's discovered. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's, oh, I loved, I loved doing it, but, um, I did, the last one I did, um, was, uh, I did, I actually, he let me play two different characters on the show. Um, I the first time I played myself and the second time I played a woman in a restaurant at a table next to him. Huh. And, um, we had such an interesting argument going back and forth, <laugh>.

Fritz Coleman  (00:52:33):

It was really Did you work with Suzy Esman or Jeff Garland earlier in your career before Curb? Well, I

Cathy Ladman (00:52:38):

Worked with Susie. Yes. Yeah, that's

Fritz Coleman  (00:52:39):

What I meant.

Cathy Ladman (00:52:40):

Cause she was, yeah, we used to take the cross town bus together. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, to, to the comic strip and izing star. Cause we both lived on the Upper West Side. And then Jeff, I had, had met, you know, in comedy clubs mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but we lived in different cities, uh, for a lot of the time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, he was a Chicago person, but he came through New York and, and then we both ended up in LA together.

Louise Palanker (00:53:01):

Can you talk for a moment about women in writing rooms and what, what, uh, were you able to bring to the experience that helped shape scripts? Cuz I imagine you were always a minority when you were in a room, right?

Cathy Ladman (00:53:13):

Um, yes. And I haven't been, excuse me, I haven't been in that many rooms. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Really. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I mean, I've only been in, in, well, maybe three writing rooms, but Yes, always a minority. Always a minority. Roseanne was, uh, an enormous, enormous, uh, writing staff. Mm-hmm. It was like, we began the season with 27 people.

Fritz Coleman  (00:53:36):

Oh, the Cow.

Cathy Ladman (00:53:38):

And there was no, there's no other sitcom. I know that's had a, uh, the writing staff of that big, um, and may maybe it whittled it down. They whittled it down to like 22 after some firings. And, um, I was in the, I was in one of the joke rooms. That's how they, they could have, they had such so much comedy power. They had like three joke rooms.

Louise Palanker (00:54:02):

They had breakout rooms.

Cathy Ladman (00:54:04):

Yeah. And we would each take five jokes and, and do them. And, uh, so in my joke room were, it was basically all, uh, almost all the time I was with all the women. Mm.

Louise Palanker (00:54:18):

Interesting.

Cathy Ladman (00:54:19):

And Alan, Steven, um, it was, um, Carrie Snow, Lois Bromfield, Cynthia Mort,

Fritz Coleman  (00:54:27):

Monica Piper. Was Monica with the show? She

Cathy Ladman (00:54:29):

Was not, not the, did she write on

Fritz Coleman  (00:54:32):

Roseanne? I thought so, but maybe not.

Cathy Ladman (00:54:34):

Maybe she did. I can't remember. But, um, she might have, but she wasn't there the year I was there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, those were the four women that were there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Oh. Actually in Garland. Garland Tesa, who became very, um, very, um, uh, successful of King of the Hill.

Fritz Coleman  (00:54:51):

Well, that's kind of cool for you cuz Carrie and you and, uh, were, were friends. And so that's, that's better than most of Yeah. Lois

Cathy Ladman (00:54:58):

Actually is the person who recommended me. Wow. Because Roseanne wanted to hire more women. Oh. And I knew Roseanne from Roseanne and I both moved to LA in 1985. And we met on this, uh, special that we were taping at the Comedy Store for George Slaughter was called funny. It was that various things that are funny. And the woman of the Comedy Store, in fact, that's, that's where Roseanne got her, uh, tonight show was Maureen Murphy. Do you remember Maureen Murphy?

Fritz Coleman  (00:55:26):

Of course. I went to her funeral at the Comedy Store.

Cathy Ladman (00:55:29):

She was, she died. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman  (00:55:31):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> when? Yeah. Yeah. Years ago. Five, six years ago.

Cathy Ladman (00:55:35):

Oh my God. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman  (00:55:36):

Oh, that's, I went to her memorial service and then Mitzi's right afterwards.

Cathy Ladman (00:55:40):

Oh wow. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Well, Maureen

Fritz Coleman  (00:55:43):

Was, and Carrie Snow sort of oversaw her. Oh, no, that was, uh, that was, uh, Taylor Negro's memorial. Right. But, uh, you know, all those, all those people, the, the ladies always stuck together and they all showed up. Yes.

Cathy Ladman (00:55:56):

So Maureen was in this special that we were doing at the Comedy Store and this segment of that special, and she made note of Roseanne. I mean, Roseanne was hilarious. And she secretly told Jim McCauley to come to one of our rehearsals, and he sat in the back in the dark. And, uh, then we took a break and a bunch of us went to the kitchen to get some beverages. And, and he walked up to her in the main room and he said, I want you to, uh, to do the show. And she looks at him blankly and he says, you don't know who I am. And he hands her a card and it says, Jim McCauley The Tonight Show. And she screamed and ran down that hallway into the parking lot in the back. And we were like, what's the matter? What's the matter?

(00:56:46):

And we ran out to the parking lot and she's jumping up and down. I'm doing The Tonight Show. I'm doing Tonight Show. And then Karen Haber and I went to see her do The Tonight Show her her debut. We went to, we sat in the audience and she, I reme, I don't know if you remember this, but she was nervous. She went out there, she did her set, she killed, and then she spun on her heel and went right back through the curtain. <laugh>, she did not wanna be out there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that was it. And then she became a star. Wow.

Louise Palanker (00:57:14):

Wow. Yeah. That,

Cathy Ladman (00:57:15):

Yeah. So I didn't answer your question really much about the women in the room. We were a minority.

Louise Palanker (00:57:20):

Yeah. But it sounds like, you know, I don't know if that for you was the right outlet because it just like, might be kind of stifling since you're a performer to have to, you know, wait to

Cathy Ladman (00:57:29):

Joking. It was, and that's con Yeah. That's why I left it. Yeah. Because I didn't want to be, uh, a writer. I wanted to be a performer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, writing is, is an important part of my career, but I, not to the, uh, I didn't want it to eclipse my performing

Fritz Coleman  (00:57:47):

Career. And, and writing for standup is a solitary, lonely, singular environment. And then you're writing in a room and your, your stuff's being judged by other people. I always thought that I would not survive well on.

Cathy Ladman (00:57:58):

Well, I have to say that it was, there was a, there were a lot of laughs. I mean, there was a lot of laughter and also a lot of crying

Louise Palanker (00:58:07):

<laugh>. Oh wow.

Cathy Ladman (00:58:08):

I remember one time, I, I didn't have, I didn't have an office because my office was across the street. So I used to hang out in the offices, the main, like where everybody else had offices cuz there was such a big staff. They had a put some people across the street mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And one time I was using somebody's office, my friend Drew, who's on staff, and, um, I was crying to my husband on the phone, and I was in there for the longest time. And Drew is peering through the blinds trying to get in there. And he just sees me

Fritz Coleman  (00:58:37):

<laugh>. I know a lot of guy, uh, guys and women. Uh, yes. And, and about that time they got off the road because they wanted to have stability in their lives. They wanted to have families. I know Monica did the thing. And, and, and Jim Vali. And it turned out to be a great career for him. People got off the road and then the bottom fell out of sitcoms for a while. And these people are dusting off their acts and trying to go back on the road after that. And it was not an easy journey.

Cathy Ladman (00:59:05):

No, no, it wasn't. And you know, I guess I just, I I kind of, I kind of the road and I kind of got tired of each other. <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I've been doing this for 40 years, close to 41 years, <affirmative>. And, um, I, I didn't, I, the allure of, of staying home and being able to earn a living was, was something, but it wasn't really enough. It wasn't enough. Like I said, I just didn't want it to eclipse my performing. And then I, so I continued to go on the road and I continued to act, but then the road kind of dried up for me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, it just, it just, it, it just, uh, it, and it's time for my next venue basically. It

Fritz Coleman  (00:59:49):

Really, Zi was talking about the difficulty in being a woman in a writer's room. But I remember from my limited experience going on the road that it was really difficult for female comics on the road because you female comics were really in a minority. And you go to the condo situation, it's three acts for seven days, and two of 'em have really bad personal hygiene and one's a drug addict. Right. And the other's a homosexual or whatever, whatever. Probably quite seriously. And I don't mean that in a judgmental way, I mean, different lifestyles. It was really hard for the female comics.

Cathy Ladman (01:00:20):

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I kind of, I guess, I guess I didn't take it so much to heart. I mean, I, the worst situation I was ever in was a pla I was working in Ocean City, Maryland, and the condo had no lock on the door. Yikes. And, um, the shower was one of those metal camp showers that you'd have at sleepaway camp. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but it didn't have a curtain. Ooh. It had an old bedroom door Oh Lord. That you'd have to put in front of the shower <laugh>. And one day I came out of my, uh, I woke up and I opened the door and I'm, I'm greeted by the ass of another comic stepping into this shower. Shower. Oh, stop. So, you know, yeah. I, I've, I've seen it. I've, I thought, I, I, I really don't wanna deal with this, but I, I dealt with it as I dealt with it as best as I could.

(01:01:20):

And it didn't destroy me. It didn't, I didn't, you know, it didn't, um, I didn't have to get the vapors from it. It was <laugh>. It was fine, but it wasn't, you know, it was certainly not the way I wanted to live. And I, I remember, oh, going to play the, um, the, uh, what was it in Sacramento? Left Unlimited. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. They had a house instead of a condo, but it was, you know, essentially the same thing. And they had these beds that were coated in like plastic <laugh>. Like the mattress had plastic coating. So then when you moved on it, it kind of crackled Oh. Tummy. And, and my friend Dave Anderson, who's no longer with us, I'm, I'm sorry. I miss him, uh, a lot. And he, um, he and I would do these commercials together and we'd say the crackle bed <laugh>. And we'd take newspaper and we'd crackle and we'd crunch the newspaper and we'd show the virtues of the crackle bed

Louise Palanker (01:02:18):

<laugh>.

Cathy Ladman (01:02:19):

So, I mean, we had fun, making fun of it, but at some point, yes. That stuff has to end. I mean, you know, when you get to a certain stage of life, you don't wanna have to deal with that. Yes.

Louise Palanker (01:02:29):

Yeah. So where, where should people go to enjoy what it is that you do? Um, I know that you've got your, your one woman show coming, but where else can people, uh, kind of partake of what you're you're on what I do? Yeah, what you do.

Cathy Ladman (01:02:45):

Well, I mean, there's social media. You can go to Facebook. I mean, everything is Cathy Ladman. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, every place you go is Cathy Ladman. Except for Instagram, it's Cathy Ladman one. One

Louise Palanker (01:02:55):

Because

Cathy Ladman (01:02:57):

To the first time,

Louise Palanker (01:02:58):

And we hate them, her

Cathy Ladman (01:02:59):

<laugh>, I didn't know how to de we hate her. Yes. Yeah. I didn't know how to delete the, the mistake I made the first time because I forgot my password. So I had to just create Cathy Ladman one. Oh. So that's basically that. I mean, I'm in town sometimes at the improv. Um, um, where else can I tell people to see me?

Fritz Coleman  (01:03:20):

Let me ask you this. Uh, yes. So you're, you're gonna do, you're gonna launch at the Pico Theater in June. Yes. And so what, what are your aspirations for this? Are you gonna have backers come and look at it? Are you gonna grow it, maybe do a longer residency somewhere and then do what Monica did, which was to take her show off Broadway?

Cathy Ladman (01:03:37):

Um, yeah, I think, I think what I wanna do, I'm not, I I don't think I'm gonna, I, the plan is not to invite backers. Um, I mean, it could change in the next two months, but really what I want, what we wanna do, my co-author and director and I wanna do is we wanna see how it looks on its feet. We wanna see what works. We wanna see what doesn't. And my goals for the show are, I'd like to take it to theaters around the country. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I'd like to actually also use it as an educational tool and perform it at colleges. Maybe high schools. I don't know if it's appropriate for high school age.

Fritz Coleman  (01:04:18):

I think that would be a great target audience for eating disorders.

Louise Palanker (01:04:20):

I'd say high school. Yes. Cruise ship. No, I

Cathy Ladman (01:04:23):

Know I say it again.

Louise Palanker (01:04:25):

High school. Yes. Cruise ship. No, no.

Cathy Ladman (01:04:27):

Cruise ship. No, no, no. Definitely not. Cuz no one has food issues on a cruise ship.

Louise Palanker (01:04:32):

They do not. And

Fritz Coleman  (01:04:33):

They have it, but they don't recognize

Cathy Ladman (01:04:34):

<laugh>. Um, so yeah, I'd like to do it at colleges and if so, if I could do it at high schools, if I, if it could translate to high school students, I would love to do it there because that's where they need it. I'd also like to contact, uh, organizations like the National Eating Disorders Association and see if I can work in conjunction with them and, um, get it out to places where people can glean, you know, some, some help and support

Louise Palanker (01:05:04):

Right. Where it can be beneficial. And, and yeah.

Cathy Ladman (01:05:07):

I mean, I want, I want this to be entertaining, but I really also want, I'm doing this partly to be of service too, because it's not, um, it's still supported in our media being mm-hmm. <affirmative> being thin and especially for women is still, um, supported to the detriment of women. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (01:05:29):

I it's, it's an ongoing issue, especially. Yes. Of course. As, you know, being the mother of a teenage daughter with social media and the, you know, there's apps that can stretch you and make you thinner and like, I even know of girls that have str um, pinched other girls to make them look fatter in photos that they post and stuff. So there's all kinds of shaming that still goes on around body image. And it's, it's just an ongoing struggle. It's part of being a human and, you know, and what you're doing is just such a gift to young women. About

Fritz Coleman  (01:06:00):

10 years

Louise Palanker (01:06:00):

Ago, and boys too,

Fritz Coleman  (01:06:02):

About 10 years ago, there seemed to be a period of time when the fashion industry was becoming very aware of that. And the plus size models started to come into mm-hmm. <affirmative> Vogue and more realistic body shapes came into vogue. But now we've gotten away from that. And I mean, supermodels look painfully thin. There's a commercial that runs in the Laly theaters about, um, uh, one of the leather companies or something where the woman's dressed at all black leather. And I'm telling you, it's preoccupying how thin this woman is. And, and, and it doesn't do the, the product any good cuz you're not even thinking about the purse. You're looking at this rail thin lady,

Louise Palanker (01:06:41):

You just wanna get her a sandwich.

Cathy Ladman (01:06:44):

I mean, I can see, you know, my, I can see how my perspective has changed because now I can walk down the street and I can look at someone and say, that person's in trouble. Right. Right. Not to not say that person looks great. Right. But I, I do see companies, um, there's a clothing company called Cabby that has plus size models. Athleta uses a lot of plus size models in their catalogs. So I still see it. Um, and maybe not enough. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman  (01:07:11):

But it doesn't have to be extreme. It doesn't have to be plus size or minus size. Just a, a normal looking person with a normal looking person, maybe a little pooch. That doesn't bother anybody.

Louise Palanker (01:07:19):

I, I love that on, on shows like American Idol, it, it doesn't even matter anymore the size of the person coming out because you, the, at the beginning, you know, Simon Kawell would say something like, you know, do you think you look like the American Idol? And, you know, if the person was like either kind of awkward looking or whatever they might be like, uh, but now people come on American Idol all different sizes and you mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you just kind of think, oh, well, let's see how they sing and Right. Yeah. And we have more superstars in music. Maybe we always did in music. You know, maybe we always had different sized people in, in music that, you know, if they're captivating than they're captivating and they just kind of like, jump off the stage and grab you. And it should, it shouldn't matter what size anybody is, you know? No,

Cathy Ladman (01:08:05):

It shouldn't. Yeah. But we still, I mean, you know, the amount of plastic surgery that is done in our, in our business mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the amount of ageism that's Oh, yeah. Uh, out there. And, and also, you know, body shaming. I mean, it's still, it still happens. It still happens. And, and you know, you still hear, you hear it with, with, in b with ballerinas, I mean,

Louise Palanker (01:08:31):

Oh

Cathy Ladman (01:08:31):

God, we are still, you know, there's so much bulimia. It

Louise Palanker (01:08:34):

Seems like no matter how much we become aware of how harmful things are, like boys, the go-to thing is to call somebody to question somebody's sexuality or to call somebody gay and women to call them either a slut or whore or something about their, the shape of their body. And like, as much as we've evolved to know better, those still seem to be like the middle school things to do that could cause the most pain. Because that's the goal at that age. Right. If someone hurt me, I'm gonna hurt you. Dina. Our producer would like to weigh in here.

Dina (01:09:08):

Yes. Hi, Cathy. Is this thing on <laugh>? No, go ahead. Hi, Cathy. I just had a question for you. Hi. Yes. It's an honor to speak with you. I've been a fan since I was like 11 years old. Oh.

Cathy Ladman (01:09:19):

Oh, wow. Whoa. Wow. That's fantastic.

Dina (01:09:22):

<laugh>. I just have a quick question to, uh, kind of weigh in, no pun intended on the conversation. Yes. Um, I'm wondering if you ever talk about normalizing, uh, like not complimenting how people, um, not necessarily someone's appearance, but normalizing. Not saying, oh, you look great, you look like you lost a bunch of weight. Like that aspect of like those kind of compliments and how they could be like triggering for example mm-hmm. <affirmative> to someone that's struggled, um, you know, has had food issues throughout their life. Like, is that something that you ever talk or think about or do you have like an opinion on that?

Cathy Ladman (01:10:02):

Well, I, I caught myself doing that. I mean, I catch myself doing that sometimes, saying to somebody, did you lose weight? You look great. And, and even even somebody who's lived on my side of the street for a long time, and that's, um, it's a, it's a social, um, uh, pitfall. I think I, I think it's a societal, uh, there's kind of like an ideal that's still in our society now that you wanna look a certain way. And it's, and it's, I don't think it's like that in, in other countries. I don't think it's like that in all other countries. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and some other countries. I mean, I think that eating disorders are kind of like Asia I think is, is, uh, is, um, getting more of a preponderance of eating disorders. But I do think that that's a, I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I think that that is a, something that I, I find that I need to keep hypervigilant about not giving a positive reinforcement to losing. Right.

Dina (01:11:13):

It's something that we all kind of have to work on because it's like you're saying, it's ingrained in us to Yes. To make comments on like the size and shape of people's bodies. Yes. And it's like, we have to work to get away from that. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (01:11:27):

I think it's like we live in a land of abundance that if you listen to the lyrics of, if I were a rich man, he's saying if I were rich, my wife would have a proper double chin. That means, means I can feed my family. And that's a good thing.

Cathy Ladman (01:11:39):

That used to be, that used to be the, the sign of a wealthy family. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> was somebody who had some gf mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, yeah. I just, I, I do think that our, our society is very used to thin equals good, bigger equals bad, and something that I think we need to change on a, on, on a very, on an individual level, I think we each need to be more vigilant to that. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (01:12:08):

Or even just saying, you know, you look, you look young, you look good,

Cathy Ladman (01:12:12):

You look, you

Louise Palanker (01:12:13):

Look healthy. Yeah. But like, we also, when, you know, we say the people look young or they look thin, and Yes. Those are all all things that, you know, you can't do anything about the age you are, you are the age you are. I know. It's like, you could say you look rested and you look good. Yeah,

Cathy Ladman (01:12:25):

I know. I mean, like, people will say to me that I don't look my age and I, I, I mean like why is it bad for me to look my age?

Louise Palanker (01:12:34):

Right, exactly. There's

Dina (01:12:36):

A lot of compliments that like, actually are not compliments

Cathy Ladman (01:12:39):

<laugh>.

Louise Palanker (01:12:39):

Right. It's an interesting way. Like

Cathy Ladman (01:12:40):

Tell me more. What are some other ones?

Louise Palanker (01:12:42):

<laugh> <laugh>. We think you're brilliant and and lovely and, and, um, we need to wrap up our show. Oh, I know. I'm sorry. It's, it's just been wonderful's why I am chatting with you.

Cathy Ladman (01:12:53):

It's my fault.

Louise Palanker (01:12:54):

No, no, no. <laugh> you are our honored guest, but Fritz is gonna now tell folks how they can help us and help all of, all of America by reviewing our podcast. So others,

Fritz Coleman  (01:13:03):

Well I just, lemme say, you know that I've been a fan of yours for a long time. You're so smart. And I just know that, uh, jokes are not, you're, you're your one person show is gonna be thoughtful and articulate. Thank you Christ. And I, I hope I I hope you have great success with it and I hope we get to work

Cathy Ladman (01:13:22):

Together. Thank you so much and together, and I really hope I didn't say anything stupid on here today. I, you

Fritz Coleman  (01:13:27):

Were really everything b very thoughtful and awesome, <laugh>, you were really, uh, but, uh, for folks who would like to, uh, learn about other content, maybe not quite as brilliant as Cathy, but damn close, go to our website, media path podcast.com. We've got 86 87 episodes in there. And we run the gamut of topics from the, uh, medical issues of Elvis Presley to, uh, a singer who works with the Oak Ridge boys to, uh, wonderful people who were part of our lives early in sitcoms in the United States. You'll find something on there you love and if you do love something, or even if you don't, we would ask you to fake a positive reaction to one of the podcasts and, and send us a review because it'll help us spread the word so people know that we have quality guests like Cathy Ladman on here. Yeah,

Cathy Ladman (01:14:15):

It's cool. Guys are great. And then next time I'm on, if I do come on again, I wanna come in in person.

Louise Palanker (01:14:20):

Would you please? Yes. Well, we can book that one. When

Fritz Coleman  (01:14:23):

You get the show up and running, bring it on and let's, let's, let's talk about when you're promoted for the next level of exposure. Sure.

Cathy Ladman (01:14:29):

Yeah. It's a, it's a great little set you have there and, and you guys are terrific together. I really love this. Thank you.

Louise Palanker (01:14:35):

Oh, thank you so much. We'll, we'll book you and have you, in fact, if you get in your car now, you could come over before the credits roll <laugh>, and we take some pictures on the back deck.

Cathy Ladman (01:14:43):

I don't think so. It's, it's after four.

Louise Palanker (01:14:45):

Oh yeah, exactly. Traffic la. Okay. So here come the credits. We would love for you to join us online on Instagram and Twitter, where we are at Media Path Pod and on Facebook where our show page is, media Path Podcast. And our Facebook group is Media Path with Fritz and Weezy podcast community. You can find full episodes with all kinds of bonus visual content on our YouTube channel Media Path podcast. We would love to know what media you have been enjoying, so you can contact us at our social media or email us at media path podcast gmail.com. We want to thank our insightful, brilliant, and lovely guest, Cathy Ladman. Our team includes Dina Friedman, Francesco Desmond, John Maddox, Sharon Beo, bill Filippi, Thomas Hubble, Mason Brown, and you. Our theme music is by me and John Maddox. I am Louise Lanker here with Fritz Coleman and Cathy Ladman. And we will see you along the media path.

(01:15:34):

Hold your place for one moment, Cathy, cause we're gonna stand up next to you, next to the monitor on which we see your face and take a picture.

Cathy Ladman (01:15:41):

Oh, okay. Okay.