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Episode 68

Political Voices & Lifting Immigrant Voices featuring Hadassah Lieberman

Episode  68
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Hadassah Lieberman’s new book is called Hadassah: An American Story and she joins us for a heartfelt conversation about her life as an immigrant, a daughter of Holocaust Survivors, a wife of a U.S. Senator (almost Vice President!), blended families and her advocacy for public health and a better understanding of our shared humanity. Plus, Fritz and Weezy are recommending Live at Mr. Kelly’s and Bob Ross: Happy Accidents, Betrayal and Greed.

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Louise Palanker (00:00:00):

That's what I have.


Welcome to Media Path. I am Louise Planker. And

Fritz Coleman (00:00:06):

I'm Fritz Coleman

Louise Palanker (00:00:06):

We are your podcast companion as you journey through the lush and fertile world of books, film and television. We are here to point out some highlights and to introduce you to wonderful guests who have added important and lovely brush strokes to the media landscape. Today we are joined by author wife of a senator, daughter of Holocaust survivors, mother of four wonderful children, immigrant and public health advocate, Hadassah Lieberman. But first Fritz, we're gonna read some reviews of the exact podcast upon which I'm speaking because we promise you if you review our show on podcast, we will read it here on the

Fritz Coleman (00:00:42):

Show. You know, I'm, I'm much too sort of, uh, humbled to be reading this every week. I wish you would read them, cuz many of them are about what a good job I'm doing.

Louise Palanker (00:00:50):

Well, maybe just talk about

Fritz Coleman (00:00:51):

Me and it's <laugh>. All right. Uh, here we go. H here. Here's our first review. This is excellent by Charlene in San Francisco. We're so happy to have a viewer in the Bay Area. They have good taste up there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I love your weekly review of your favorite movies, books, TV shows, wonderful guests. One of my favorite podcasts.

Louise Palanker (00:01:10):

Thank you Charlene.

Fritz Coleman (00:01:11):

Thank you my darling. And tell the rest of the people in the Bay Area cuz they, they, they have a certain taste up there. She

Louise Palanker (00:01:16):

Doesn't know all of them.

Fritz Coleman (00:01:16):

Okay. Uh, from active listener rash. Ooh, sorry about the rash. <laugh>. This is, this is a real hoot.

Louise Palanker (00:01:25):


Fritz Coleman (00:01:27):

Love listening to it. Let's call them non-millennials and non Gen Zs, meaning were really old and they were trying to pay us a compliment. Talking about Bachelor in Paradise is the entertainment I never knew I needed. The guests ranged from a-listers to people I've never heard of. People I could have sworn were not still alive, <laugh>, but they all make equally quality content. This is the best review ever. <laugh>, uh, forget Chicken Soup. This podcast is real medicine. Thank you so much. Active listener rat.

Louise Palanker (00:02:01):

It was like a smile and a pinch at the same time. It was right. It was,

Fritz Coleman (00:02:04):

It was great.

Louise Palanker (00:02:05):

So, Fritz, do you wanna do your show first or? I

Fritz Coleman (00:02:08):

Do. Okay. A as you know, we see I am a big fan of iconic performance venues in the United States. And one of the most famous in America for both musicians and comedians is Mr. Kelly's in Chicago. This was a magic spot on Russ Street that helped launch the careers of Barbara Streisand, who performed there when she was 21 years old. Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughn, Ramsey Lewis, and many others. And now this is all covered in a great documentary called Live at Mr. Kelly's. It's on a bunch of different streaming surfaces now for comedians. This was center stage for the seismic shift in standup during the sixties when comedy became about topical issues and political issues and social issues. Comics like Lenny Bruce and Mor solving, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, the Smothers Brothers, Joan Rivers, and even Woody Allen. Fred Willard, one of the many well-known talents that commented during this film said, going from Ed Sullivan to Mr.


Kelly's was like going from AA ball to the major leagues in one fell swoop. The one thing that made Mr. Kelly's groundbreaking was that it was inclusive, meaning it hired black performers and welcomed black audience members, which was very rare in downtown or Northside, Chicago. During that period in history, the club was started by Georgia, Oscar Marion Al, who also opened two other prestigious spots in Chicago, the London House, and happy medium. Mr. Kelly's got its name from a very colorful and personable manager. The Marion Al's had a skilled ability to book up and coming performers who had just broken into stardom. If you visit Chicago these days, go to have a steak on Rush Street at the Gibson Steakhouse. You will then be on the grounds of the original Mr. Kelly's really cool documentary for performers.

Louise Palanker (00:03:55):

I started watching it last night, uh, Fritzie on Amazon, and I was instantly mesmerized and then my eyes closed. So Uhoh, I

Fritz Coleman (00:04:03):

Will finish. Is that compelling, huh? Yeah. No. Well, a good friend Tom Dreesen performed there.

Louise Palanker (00:04:07):

Yeah. Well he's from Chicago.

Fritz Coleman (00:04:08):

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, it really wonderful.

Louise Palanker (00:04:10):

So much great stuff. I was watching the beginning and they were showing all these clips of Jack Jones and I'm like, oh, Jack Jones super fan. I was waiting to hear him speak, but I don't know, I don't think they got the interview with him. But you know, Jack Jones, please come on our podcast cuz we love you. All right. So I watched a documentary in Netflix called Bob Ross. Happy Accidents, betrayal and Greed. You know, Bob Ross first saw it. You saw it, saw it. All right. So we'll talk about it. So this is a documentary about PBS painting Prodigy Bob Ross. And I must confess that it's about as creepily, seductive as is his TV show. Watching the film provokes equal parts intrigue and eerie fascination. Don't panic. Bob Ross never murdered a man with a pallet knife. <laugh> his secret wet on wet paint ingredient was not blood.


But the doc paints his partners, Annette and Walt Kowalski as ruthless, litigious parasites who have wrestled his brand from the hands of his son Steve, also a very talented artist. Bob passed away in 1995 and the Kowalski's kept that fact from the public as beloved as he was. Almost no one attended his funeral. No one knew he had died. His 403 episodes of the Joy of Painting continued airing and the kowalski's began selling the merch menagerie that Bob had actively resisted On the official Bob Ross website, you can find Bob Ross bookmarks. Bob Ross coffee mugs. There's a Bob Ross Chia Pet, Bob Ross, Christmas ornaments. Bob Ross, waffle makers. Do you have one friz?

Fritz Coleman (00:05:38):

I do not. It

Louise Palanker (00:05:39):

Makes your waffle in the shape of Bob Ross's fluffy head. Yes. And a Bob Ross monopoly board. Bob Ross's consistent message was that everyone can paint. The serious art world would disagree. They won't even concede that Bob Ross could paint well. But as with any of life's pursuits, you don't have to be world class to enjoy an activity and take pride in a creation. It's sad that Bob Ross's legacy was not handed down to his son Steve. But this outcome perhaps provides Steve with the joy of his own creations. You will find Bob Ross happy accidents, betrayal, and greed on Netflix.

Fritz Coleman (00:06:14):

This made me very sad. Yeah. He was a very sympathetic character. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's the great battle between the good and evil of art and commerce. Right. These people that bought his brand and, and he didn't even realize he'd relinquished all of his control over his intellectual property. It was, I was, I just, I wanted to hug the guy at the end of the thing. Sure.

Louise Palanker (00:06:34):

But, uh, but also, if it weren't for the kowalski's, Bob Ross wouldn't have been on tv.

Fritz Coleman (00:06:37):

Yeah. That's the thing.

Louise Palanker (00:06:38):

They were the energy behind all of that. So that's, you're right. Kind of what we run into. Good.

Fritz Coleman (00:06:42):

Good suggestion.

Louise Palanker (00:06:43):

Oh. So now we're gonna welcome our guests. Are you excited about it?

Fritz Coleman (00:06:46):

I'm very excited. I I love this book. I think this book's important. I think everybody in the current, um, generation that did not have the benefit of the leadership of her husband in the Senate would benefit from her thoughts about immigration and being Jewish in America and keeping the memory of the Holocaust alive. I think it's a very important piece of work and I'm very happy I

Louise Palanker (00:07:08):

Read it. Yeah. And everyone who's alive is benefiting from the leadership that they, they, uh, provided to us. Absolutely. Born in Prague to Holocaust survivors. Hadassah Lieberman and her family immigrated in 1949 to the United States. She went on to earn a BA from Boston University in government and dramatics and an MA in international relations and American government from Northeastern University. She built a career devoted largely to public health that has included positions at Lehman Brothers, Pfizer, and the National Research Council. She was married to Joe Lieberman, a former US center from Connecticut, who was the Democratic nominee for vice president with Al Gore and would go on to run for president. Her newest book, Hadassah an American Story, tells the compelling story of her extraordinary life. And we are thrilled to welcome Hadassah Lieberman.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:07:53):

Thank you. Did you get

Fritz Coleman (00:07:54):

Nor Easter where you live back there, Hadassah?

Hadassah Lieberman (00:07:57):

Yeah, we had and I even got it on my floor in the living room. I'm so sorry. But you got just the water, you know, the water and the wind comes in. Didn't you get a lot of wind and rain?

Fritz Coleman (00:08:09):

We're always conflicted about rain. We need it desperately. But you can get a 10th of veia rain and it causes mudslides out here. So it, it's really bad. I

Hadassah Lieberman (00:08:17):

Know. It's funny because one of our kids is in Israel and whenever they have rain they say, oh, it's good. There's nothing wrong with it, <laugh>. It's okay. We need rain.

Louise Palanker (00:08:26):

Yeah. California and Israel, we, uh, we share, share a lot of the same

Hadassah Lieberman (00:08:30):


Louise Palanker (00:08:30):

Right? Yes.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:08:31):

Right. Right. It's so, it's so wonderful to be here today. I'm very happy and particularly cuz one of my dear friends was very friendly with your cousin for years and, you know, have to be thankful for all the friends we get around the globe and around the

Louise Palanker (00:08:52):

Country and how they connect us to other people. I know. It's

Hadassah Lieberman (00:08:56):

Extraordinary. This's been amazing. Right,

Louise Palanker (00:08:57):

Right. And you must see that at a global level in your

Hadassah Lieberman (00:09:01):

Life. I do. I do. I've seen it. And some of the work I've done has allowed me to enter in to, you know, items like breast cancer. I worked with Susan G. Coleman mm-hmm. <affirmative> about breast cancer and with all of that and went around the world and sought in Saudi Arabia and Brazil and how all of us are one womankind for breast cancer and mankind. And we have to work together.

Louise Palanker (00:09:35):

Right. We're all part of the same human organism. And I think that the Covid pandemic has been kind of an example. It's a, it, it needs to be a lesson we need to learn. But I wanna go back to your, your childhood a a little bit. Yes. Hadassah. And you know, because I've worked a lot with Holocaust survivors in the Santa Barbara area and I've filmed their stories, et cetera, you know, and what I've found, uh, from the children of survivors is that in an effort to present a safe world to their children, Holocaust survivors often hold onto debilitating secrets or they are overly protective or they expect so much, they place the heavy miracle of their survival on the shoulders of their children. And you seem to understand and accept all of the above at a very young age and walk with purpose in it. Can you talk about that?

Hadassah Lieberman (00:10:25):

Yes. Well, I didn't, you know, I was a baby when my family, when my parents immigrated to the United States. And so everything I knew about the Holocaust, the Shoah, as it's called in Hebrew, was from them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and from book I read and people I met and where I lived in, you know, 20 minutes whatever next to New Hampshire from Garden, Massachusetts, there were no survivors. There weren't people who necessarily spoke any of our languages or knew the food we ate or understood anything. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it was really explaining yourself as an immigrant to local American Gardner rights at that point. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So everything I knew about the Holocaust and what I could talk about to people, I had friends. I always had heard so much. And I knew from my parents, just as you described, that they wanted me to be a good kid. They wanted to take pride in me and the way I dressed and the way I wore my hair, the way I, you know, on and on and on. Maybe like a lot of parents, but immigrant parents in particular, cuz they always want their kids to catch up to what they need to do and be ahead of time. Mm-hmm.

Louise Palanker (00:11:55):

Okay. And, and, and children are a reflection. I mean, parents see their children as a reflection. I remember when I was a little kid that my mother was cleaning my face and saying to me, I, if you walk around with a dirty face, it's, people are gonna say, Ruth Lanker doesn't know how to clean her child's face. And I remember as a defiant little kid, just thinking, that's your problem, lady <laugh>, you know? But

Hadassah Lieberman (00:12:19):

That is so true because that's also the old fashioned way. You didn't go out in public not looking good because people would judge you. They judge your parents accordingly. So we all had that. And I know for some people it's felt as an oppressive environment to be in, for people to think that way. But I didn't feel that it was, I learned from that and I guess it made me more conscientious about how I looked, how I acted. And you know, I just accepted it until, you know, you go through your own little rebellions alongside your parents all the time to

Louise Palanker (00:13:02):

Figure out who you are. But Yeah.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:13:04):

But it's a very big thing. You know, your hair's up in a ponytail with a bow and no one else in my kindergarten class head a ponytail with a bow. Aw. And they wore, you know, pants. They didn't wear a skirt. They didn't wear a skirt so much. And my mother said, oh, it's not appropriate to wear um, pants. You have to wear a skirt. I remember, look, my first day of kindergarten, they would hold these baskets over our heads. And if you were a good kid, they let you pick like a little toy or a little doll, little lollipop out of the basket if you were good. And I remember bringing a little car home and my mother said on the first day in Yiddish, cuz that was our language mm-hmm. <affirmative>, she said, how was it [inaudible] And I said, mommy, it was very nice. But no more Yiddish, only English <laugh> uhoh. And that's a hard thing for parents. They didn't

Louise Palanker (00:14:11):

Throw you outta the house. Wow. You know, it's interesting to me that I, cuz I think that dialects and, and language are so fascinating, but children learn the dialect, not just the language, but the dialect of their peers as a survivor, as a survival instinct. So you can learn the language of your parents, but you're gonna speak with the accent of your neighbor kids because you, because nature knows that you need to, you, you need to assimilate, you need to fit in in order to survive.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:14:41):

Yep. And yet at the same time, as a child, and I said this in my book, and I remember that one of the men who drove Joe, my husband, in and out of New York, was from a Pakistani immigrant mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And when I was one time I went down with Joey into New York for a ride. And this man who was sitting in the front heard me talking about immigration to my husband. And he said, Hadassah, please tell me when I can read that book. I wanna give it to my children. Oh. Because I was talking about how children have to respect their parents even when they don't speak the language so well mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And even when they don't make the same food or wear the same clothes mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I felt rewarded. Yeah, that's lovely.

Fritz Coleman (00:15:38):

I'm sure there are many stories about that and, and people reacting to your book. It's really powerful and I think it's gonna be really powerful to generations that haven't experienced the verbal exchange of information about the Holocaust and so forth. I'm gonna go back to the beginning of your book. Your book starts with describing how you accidentally came on the diary of your mother Ella, and you called her Mauch. Is is that a great

Hadassah Lieberman (00:16:01):

Quote? Yeah, Mauch. I just, it was my own

Fritz Coleman (00:16:03):

Saying. No, I love that. It's just lovely. Even if you don't know the language Mom, the mom part of it says she's talking about her mom. <laugh>. Anyway, she was an Auschwitz survivor. And, and, but I just wanted to say she wrote quite beautifully and her writings in this diary that you stumbled across when you were unpacking some of her items was in check. Yes. And you had to get a translated. And when you did, this was the first translated line that we read. Dear children, mama wanted so badly to write for you a diary. And each time she tried, the memories of her pain destroyed the truth. That just knocked the wind outta me. It was such a beautiful sentiment. And she continues in that same passage. I'm writing a few lines in the first hours of the year, 1970 with a broken heart, because right now I know for sure I will never write more than this. What a, what a profound passage. And, and she was, she was quite poetic in her writing Hadassah.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:17:09):

And that was the translation by woman who was from that same background, also a survivor of the Holocaust who translated it. And had I not had it translated, I wouldn't have known anything that my mother wrote about. She told me some things, but it was just amazing when she focused on what had happened to her during the war. And I didn't know, I knew she was an Auschwitz, she described the bunks. But to go into Auschwitz when I was invited by President Clinton's staff person who was in charge of inviting someone. And I, because I was the daughter, I was the wife of a senator in the US Senate, I was invited to go. And it was shocking.

Fritz Coleman (00:18:12):

This was the 50th anniversary of the freeing of the camps. And you and I, I think honestly it's the strongest part of the book with you reacting to your surroundings. And I, I'm, I want you to finish your story, but I just want to give people some context here. When you walked in there, you said it wasn't, it wasn't a place, it was another planet. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was so dark and different than the rest of the world that you called it a different planet. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, go ahead and continue, sir.

Louise Palanker (00:18:39):

And she went with El Ellie Wezel mm-hmm.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:18:42):

<affirmative>. Yes. A different planet. Yes. With, well I, you know, I'm gonna jump around so much and I shouldn't cuz I get things out of time context. But that story that my mother translated about people coming into her home before the war, German Nazis, and they just walked in and her mother had said to my mother, my grandmother, who I never knew, had said to her, oh, the Germans weren't so bad World War I, they'll probably be okay. And they were in the Tian Mountain area mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which where they didn't come to the Nazis, did not come to that town until a little later. And then my mother just sat there and watched what they were doing. They were taking everything out, tearing things away, finding until they would take everyone out of her house, out of her family, and march towards the trains to Auschwitz.


So those stories coming from her pen in Czechoslovakian language, when I never knew, except some of the phrases she would occasionally articulate were amazing. And telling my brother and I that we must complete her story. That we must talk about what happened to finish her story. And she didn't talk about it with us all the time. She was shocked when she heard I was invited to go to Auschwitz by the White House to be part of the group going there. Ellie Wezel was there and other ambassadors. And she said to me, you have to be careful. And I said, why? You have to be careful. She never explained that. And she said, are you Oh sure. Are you gonna be okay? And I had a little boy at that point in time, and I was divorced and I know my mother was worried. And I was going back to Auschwitz, to this hellish pit.


And everything I began to touch was another planet. It really was another planet. And even today, a lot of people don't know that it's a different planet and we have to keep remembering. And when President Clinton wrote welcoming us to go on this trip, that was very important. It was an important memory. And then when I wrote what I did, and it went in the congressional record, very important to me. And the man who helped me was on Joe's staff, my husband's staff. And his father had been a soldier during the war mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And he had to go into Daja, you know, when the liberation came, Auschwitz and Daja. And my mother was liberated out of dfa mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he never met her. But it was shocking to have my husband have a PR guy who was there doing this. Wow. Yeah. A bind again to people. Mm-hmm.

Fritz Coleman (00:22:22):

<affirmative>, well, Yeezy's father, I don't know if you wanna get into the whole thing, uh, which she has written about, uh, and, uh, and disgusted. And it's, it's, it's a very touching story. I always thought it would make a spectacular movie was a soldier, a a Jewish soldier in one of the platoons that liberated one of the camps. Which one was it?

Louise Palanker (00:22:43):

It was Nord Housen in Germany. And everyone had been murdered half hour before they arrived. There were no

Fritz Coleman (00:22:50):

Survivors. But I mean, just the, the emotion of a Jewish soldier, uh, going in there, it's, it's a very poignant story. And, and you, you make a comment in your book that these are stories that cannot all be uttered aloud, however they can be written. Which is interesting. Meaning it's easier to express yourself in writing. Correct.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:23:10):

Well, because Yes. Well, also, my mother had a, had different languages as well. And there were times she spoke. There was one woman who was Jewish from Gardener, Massachusetts. And my mother was close friends with her. They had just gotten to know each other. And she was from a, she, she was Jewish, but she wasn't particularly observant of anything. And she remembered saying to me in her letter, I remember she used to write me letters saying, I never knew about the Holocaust. I never knew about these stories. I never knew about any of this until your mother and I came together. And she talked to me and she said, I honestly cannot believe this at all. And that's what happened. That's what happened. And so when I was in high school and people started to understand there were these two, they happened to be Jewish boys in Garden, Massachusetts.


And one of them was from a very assimilated home. And he's now part of the Le Bevi community. He had nothing to do with Judaism and he had problems in college. And he found the Le Bevi group to help him and pull him out of his problems mm-hmm. <affirmative> that he was so fearful of. And he became a man with a black hat living in Brooklyn. And he wrote to me, he wanted to write, and I haven't included in the book as well. And he said, you know, when your parents spoke about things, they were from another world I'd never known. People who knew what they knew, who had lived through what they lived through. And he said, as I went on, I realized how this was a beyond spectacular horror show. And so there were many points of influence that my parents had on people who knew nothing about their background.

Louise Palanker (00:25:29):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, let me ask you, um, near the end of the book, your daughter Honey writes an excerpt that was very striking. Did your mother's mother die in the Holocaust?

Hadassah Lieberman (00:25:41):

Oh, yes, she was killed. So right away,

Louise Palanker (00:25:44):

Sohan wrote that she was looking through a, a book about the Holocaust, and there was a picture, um, a a group of people interned and your mother took the book from her granddaughter and said, I need to see if my mother's in this photo. And, and that really broke my heart. Oh

Hadassah Lieberman (00:26:03):

God. That was shocking. It was shocking. And for Han, you know, there have been some psychologists who have said, psychiatrists who have said that, you know, the third generation sometimes imbibes more from these books, these stories, these histories, conversations with their grandparents, great-grandparents about the Shoah. And they're very deeply touched by the whole story of the Holocaust. So sometimes I look at our little baby, one of four children, and I see how she's absorbed so much. So that was indeed a frightening moment for her to absorb from her grandmother.

Fritz Coleman (00:26:52):

She, she lives in Israel now. Is she the one you

Hadassah Lieberman (00:26:55):

Were She does, she may, she has five boys. Mm-hmm.

Fritz Coleman (00:26:59):

<affirmative>. Wow.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:26:59):

Yeah, five boys. So when we stay with her, which we do all the time mm-hmm. <affirmative>, people say, don't you stay in a hotel. Why would we stay in a hotel when they have a room for us with the bathroom, <laugh> and the babies are all there air and they get to come in whenever they want. Oh. And so she's in Israel and, you know, it's hard, it's hard in the sense that she's far away and I miss her. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But the truth is, kids grow up, Mary have kids do other things, and they're not down the block from you all the time. We have two kids who are near us in New York. Yeah. So we appreciate that. But she's there and she's a pato. She loves Israel. And she said, what else would I do? This is where I want my children to be raised. Mm-hmm.

Fritz Coleman (00:27:54):

<affirmative>. Wow. Wow. Your, your father, uh, was a Rabbi Samuel Freilich. Correct? Yes. A and the fact that he was a rabbi made his words even more powerful. And they sort of express, they did to me in the book, the entire moral conundrum that was the Holocaust, he asked, now this is a, a rabbi where was God? Faith was the cornerstone of our existence. It was inconceivable to us that a merciful father could ignore the pitiful plea of his children when we were delivered to the Nazis. And the redemption did not occur, we fell into despair. Life loss, meaning we became an orphan. People without a heavenly Father. I just thought that's the whole moral argument of the Holocaust. How could an an existing God allow this to happen?

Hadassah Lieberman (00:28:51):

And there have been many answers and questions. And when I think down that road, when I think about some of the obvious conclusions, we're all very different. And to us, I know those questions exist, but at the same time, religion has been a strength to us. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I look upwards, one rabbi said, we're living in a different realm now. We have to look at God and speak to God in different ways. But we have to, those of us who believe, I've always said, if you believe in Judaism, you believe in Shabbat, which is another story I wrote briefly about through the campaigns. If you believe in Shabbat, whatever you believe in, traditionally, it's an obligation for traditional people to share that with others who may not believe it, who may not understand it, who may not have even sat down at a Shabbat table. It's our obligation when and how and where we all live different ways. I understand it's our obligation to have them share our table, our Shabbat table.

Fritz Coleman (00:30:22):

And and I just wanna conclude this thought with the fact that your father, um, was able to process the information and discover where he fit into the planet and was all over, he asked himself these questions, since I survived, what kind of a life am I going to lead? How can I make sure that I did not survive in vain? So even he was able to turn those unanswered questions into his mission for as long as he remained on the planet.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:30:52):

Yes. Yes. He felt very strongly about his Zionism. We would've been there, he would've moved there. But my mother, after the war, after they met, she just didn't wanna go to another war zone. Mm. She couldn't take it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we ended up in the US and one of the funny stories I know in the book is my mother and father were on the boat, and I heard that I was not sick. They were sick, vomiting all the time. And the captain started to dance around with me under two years of age, <laugh>. And I was okay. And she laughed. She says, Maya doco we're all sick. And she is dancing with cat <laugh>. That's funny. You know, the stories. The stories. Oh yeah. You know what you're saying is my father really lifted us up. He was an old-fashioned father in the way that he believed in discipline. He believed you had to listen to a father. We never, ever sat in my father's seat for any meal. Mm. <laugh> it was his seat. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, even if he weren't there, that was his seat. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, you know, I've repeated it with my husband all the time. So some old, old-fashioned things are ways that some of us gerd ourselves and keep our back straight. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> leaning on

Louise Palanker (00:32:33):

It. Yeah. It's also a, a way to retain respect.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:32:38):

Um, yes.

Louise Palanker (00:32:39):

You know, even he, which

Hadassah Lieberman (00:32:40):

Often many of us do not have today for anyone,

Louise Palanker (00:32:44):

It, it can slip away. You know, too much of a familiarity can cause us to sort of descend into madness. And we, maybe that's what the internet has provided. I don't know. It's a big complicated question. But where Joe was sworn in, and I'm reading it in your book, where he was sworn in Yes. With your extended immigrant family in attendance. Did did it chill you to hear that this was the command center for the insurrection?

Hadassah Lieberman (00:33:11):

Oh, oh, I, they, I can't link the two, I can't link his being sworn in to the US Senate. You have to understand, I had a card. We all have cards, ID cards with the picture, you know, with the identification. And it, you had to have it every time you walked in. I was a senator's wife. I needed to give that card to the guards mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So frankly it was surrealistic to me. And never saw anything like that from anyone that's had years at the Senate. And, you know, talking about things, there's a right, there's a left, there's a middle, there's a hot, there's a cold. But the point is, the way that I was taught when Joe got to be a senator and I came into the Senate, I wasn't ever allowed on the bottom floor of the Senate. I could walk up to the gallery as a wife.


Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But you didn't go in. You weren't allowed. It's just an orientation day for my husband and his colleagues. We went into the Senate and we had a moment that was quiet after they'd told us different things, trying to teach us what a senate is all about, your spouse. And it was all wives at that point with the spouses. There weren't any, maybe there was one or two men, but there I was. And I watched Joe's face looking up at the paintings overhead of these famous former senators and others. And I looked at Joey, I said, Joey, what are you thinking? And he said, I'm thinking, I'm sitting here in the midst of these historic figures and I am being sworn in to the Senate. I'm ve I'm feeling very proud. And he looked at me and said, Hadassahh [inaudible] what are you thinking? I said, Joey, I feel like my fist is in the air to Hitler telling him you didn't get us all.


And my dad looked at me and it was a moment. Wow. But you know what, it was a moment of triumph. Mm-hmm. And that's why I did this book. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I did this book because after all, I am a survivor. A a family survivor post show up post-Holocaust. And I've evolved through all kinds of things. Immigration, and coming to this country and having to learn a new language and divorce and remarriage and marrying Joe Lieberman and being able to get to be invited by the White House to Auschwitz. And when you think about it, I had to give these words to the people, those who understand them, who were part of the survivor generations, and those who never heard anything about it. The Pakistani driver. You know what I'm saying?

Louise Palanker (00:36:48):

I think you're, what you're talking about is, is just raising all, all of our levels of awareness. Cuz when you see that certain angry, ugly elements of human nature beginning to rise here in America, in, in our homeland, that we saw as a land of freedom that was designed never to allow this to take seed. What are you, what do you and Joe talk about?

Hadassah Lieberman (00:37:12):

We're shocked. We're shocked. We don't like language like that to be articulated loudly in front of children, in front of, you know, whether it's in your churches, synagogues, schools, to have all of this contaminated stuff around. I never saw that in any of my husband's colleagues. It's like they ask about, some people will say to me, have you ever experienced anti-Semitism? No, I have not. Now. I can't tell you anything today. I'm, my husband's not running today. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But we never did mm-hmm. <affirmative> and such respect. One of the, I'll never forget one Friday night. And I usually didn't do it. I invited friends to come, colleagues, people to come for Shabbat dinner. Not a lot, a few. And they came to the house and it was very hot and sweaty. And I said, oh, well Joe unfortunately just got a vote and he is gonna walk back with the Capitol police tonight, so let's sit down.


So he sat down and it was apparent that the votes were going on, and he was not gonna be able to come home so soon. And he still had to walk home. Right. So there we were, we sat down, I made the blessing of the wine, the hollow, you know, all this stuff you do. And they sat down and I started to serve them first course. And they said, oh, okay. I said, yeah, Joe would come. So they had no idea that Joe would come to the door while we're in the middle of our first course. He ca I hear the key. He walks in with the policeman who are bringing him back. He's soaked from the heat. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he takes his jacket off, washes his hands, comes to the table, kisses our guests. They were overwhelmed. And I have to tell you, I was very proud because this is Joe. What you see is what you have. And I am very proud that he has done what he's done. And some of the cops who walked with him studied the Bible mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And they knew different things and they wanted to talk with Joe about the Bible. It was very, very special.

Louise Palanker (00:39:41):

So we're talking about, so I'm nine miles, right. We're talking about

Hadassah Lieberman (00:39:44):

Nine. It's five. It's a little over five.

Louise Palanker (00:39:46):

But he went there and back. Right.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:39:48):

Well, um, yeah. No, he was, he was there that night. Sometimes we had the there and back. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we did those things as well. One, one Friday night, Joe said to me before, earlier in the day, he said, okay, you wanna come to the capitol, stay in a hotel around the corner. So I said, okay. And we went there and another time we were there and they had late votes. And so I came over and slept over at the same place. And all these senators were coming in, whether they were Jewish or not, they wanted to come into Shabbat. Mm-hmm. That's what they wanted. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they all came in and I had put my white tablecloth on top of Joey's desk, <laugh>. And I put the candles on top and the wine cup on top. I did everything and brought food. And these senators were running back and forth with votes. And they all came in to eat a little bit or drink a little bit. And I was very proud that that's where we were.

Louise Palanker (00:41:03):


Fritz Coleman (00:41:04):

Beautiful. What, what um, I mean you point out the, the different environment that was then, uh, uh, uh, I'll give you an example. We're in such a, a vitriolic time about immigrants and immigration and vilifying immigrants now. Yes. And you write about the 2000 election. Your husband was obviously the vice presidential candidate to Al Gore, although you mentioned that it was not comfortable for the family of survivors to go in front of a crowd of strangers to talk about your, your experience. Vice President Gore urged you to, and the words you told to the crowd were quite powerful. You say quote, whether you or your family immigrated from Europe, Africa, Mexico, Latin America, Asia, I'm standing here for you. I think we could just do the world a, a, a greater good by expressing that Now it just seems so, um, foreign to where people's attitude is about immigration right now. We could use your words right now in a public place.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:42:07):

Oh, thank you. You know, when we were campaigning in Middle America, different places, we had different ways of getting there. Joe was obviously with, um, vice President Gore and they traveled around and I was traveling alone with Tipper, mostly not Tipper. And it was amazing. I'd be in the middle America walking. I just remember walking through these crowds. Everyone was coming up to me and I didn't know if they're Republican or Democrat. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or independent. They all said, we like you. We like you and your husband. Your husband is a religious decent man. We like him very much. Perfect. And I remember that. I was so touched by it. And that's what we have to do. We can't be judgmental. It's a democracy. We need each other to pass legislation. We have to talk to each other with kindness. Not with hatred, not with anger. That has to stop. Those of us who love democracy have to stop it. There's a Hebrew expression [inaudible] which is repairing the world. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And what it means, it may only mean repairing your family, your community, your houses of worship. You know, everyone has different influences on different circles. And that's our obligation, responsibility. We must repair each other today more than ever before.

Louise Palanker (00:43:55):

And you can do it with something as simple as a smile. I know that's harder to do when you're wearing a mask in public, but I just think that, you know, we, we encounter so many different people as we move through our day and sometimes we're frustrated and we can't park and we didn't wanna have to go here or go there. Or this line is moving faster than the line I'm in Baba Baba. But just take a breath and say, I'm in America. I'm breathing fresh air. I I've eaten good food today. Smile.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:44:28):

That's what we have to do. And I guess I just feel that we have to help each other down those streets. Some people hate anyone who does not believe in one party, one religion, one, you know, it's ridiculous cuz we're different people. That's the whole point in America. That's what we've always believed

Louise Palanker (00:44:54):

In. And you can learn. I remember you can learn from differences. You can't, you know, someone can reinforce what you already know. Okay. That feels good. It's like a sugar high. But actually to listen to somebody who feels differently and to learn more about what fuels them, what motivates them, what uh, matters to them. I mean, I know you learn to do that as a political family. You have to listen to what matters to people. And you, you must be, you and your husband must be very good at that right now.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:45:25):

Well, you know, I won't say I am, but Joey's been incredible in that way for a long time.

Fritz Coleman (00:45:32):

One, one more thing that sort of screams out of the 2000 election, which was Al Gore and your husband and George W. Bush and, and Dick Cheney. And of course the election had to be settled in the Florida courts and ultimately the Supreme Court. But at the conclusion, when it was finally, uh, concluded, what was just so wonderful was the proper indignified way that both Vice President Gore and Senator Lieberman conceded and the words they used. And it was, it was a, a time of nothing but graceful patriotism, which is 180 degrees out of phase with what we're going through right

Hadassah Lieberman (00:46:14):

Now. Well, you know, they're gentlemen, we used to use that word a lot. A gentleman has a certain dignity mm-hmm. <affirmative> and pride in how we act and what we say. And we have to do this with our children, with our grandchildren, with communities around us. We have to each teach each other how to speak.

Louise Palanker (00:46:40):

Do you, uh, think as you know, as the years have passed since 2000, do you think about the problems we could have solved or averted, had Gore and Lieberman taken office in 2000

Hadassah Lieberman (00:46:54):


Louise Palanker (00:46:56):

More water <laugh>, that's gonna require more water

Hadassah Lieberman (00:46:59):

<laugh>. Yes. You know, it's, it's silly to be specific in that regard. The truth is everything works out different ways. Whoever thought we would have the past, what was it? Eight, four years?

Fritz Coleman (00:47:24):

<laugh> seemed like

Louise Palanker (00:47:25):

Four <laugh>.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:47:27):

But I mean, think about it. Yeah. Realistically, honestly speaking, we can't predict futures. We can get scared about things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we can get angry, we can get upset. We can, but we don't know whoever. I couldn't have imagined that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. No, no. So what, what do we, we have to make it better. The attitudes toward immigration. I'm not saying everyone should immigrate. I'm not saying there have to, there have to be rules. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you can't do things without rules. Without specifics. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But at the same time, don't make everyone who wants to immigrate into a monster, into something negative. If they are so negative, then let that be shown in their papers, in their examinations, whatever it is. But we need to remain. My mother, when she went through past the Statue of Liberty and past, you know, all that stuff at the Sta Emma Lazarus, she had read about Emma Lazarus and she talked, she's, she couldn't believe that Emma Lazarus was there.


America was a godsend. It was a godsend. So maybe some people don't believe that it was a godsend, but so what? It's so much higher than so many other countries, the way that we act in how we respect so many people. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So let's get us, get ourselves back on track, be different and listen to each other. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I don't know, it's very frustrating because I don't like chapters. I read pre show up, pre Holocaust. I don't like how people were talking to each other. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I'm always nervous. I don't wanna hear or see that kind of interaction that we know. Doesn't know

Fritz Coleman (00:49:32):

I I dangerous. I I like history and, um, uh, I've been watching a series on PBS actually for the second time called The Rise of the Nazis. And I'm sure the,

Hadassah Lieberman (00:49:43):

Oh, I don't think I've seen it. Oh

Fritz Coleman (00:49:45):

My gosh. It's a British documentary. Uh, but, uh, it covers the period of time from the end of World War I to when Hitler became chancellor and then ultimately prime minister of,

Louise Palanker (00:49:57):

And has a lot of reenacters too. So it has a reenact,

Fritz Coleman (00:49:59):

It's kind of a hybrid, but, but the Oh, what, but the stark thing, it kind of plays to the point you just made, Hadassah is how similar the political, economic, and social environment was from like 1930 to 1934 in Berlin and in Germany. How similar it is to what we're living through right now. It's quite frightening.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:50:24):

That's, see that to me is frightening. But we have to react to it in different ways. We can't. And see part of the problem here we are with this amazing machine, the computer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> never had anything like it. Whether it's an iPhone laptop, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's a genius. A genius. It surmounts anything. We just, okay. The printing press, when that started,

Louise Palanker (00:50:54):

That was, that was big Gene

Hadassah Lieberman (00:50:55):

<laugh>. Yeah. Very big. But this is another printing voice. Everything. And it also spontaneously allows people who may be sitting in a ground, underground, basement, wherever they communicate with each other about hateful things mm-hmm. <affirmative> and they can grow their own small communities, which are dangerous. And it makes them feel, oh, they're strong. Absolutely. They're amazing. And that's the problem that we

Louise Palanker (00:51:33):

Have. How do, how do you feel about, uh, government regulation of tech?

Hadassah Lieberman (00:51:39):

Oh, I think, I think it's critical to, I understand there's some people that are adamantly opposed to it. I'm afraid to allow that to be totally free. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I don't think it should be. I agree. I agree. That just, you know, it doesn't mean you regulate everything, but you can't do bad things. What was it they used to say? Don't scream fire in a theater.

Louise Palanker (00:52:03):

Right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:52:05):

So it's, this is the same thing. I think it is. And they're screaming.

Louise Palanker (00:52:08):

It needs like more than just laws. I think it needs a committee, you know, a regulating com mm-hmm. <affirmative> committee, bipartisan

Fritz Coleman (00:52:14):

Committee. Absolutely. And I think we might have reached a tipping point because now all the studies about Instagram and it's negative effect on children is gonna change people's hearts. I really think So

Hadassah Lieberman (00:52:24):


Louise Palanker (00:52:24):

Do you, what do you see in your grandkids? Because you're, are your grandkids, uh, you know, well, they know a a million more than we did. You know, you had to go to the library and order a book and wait for it to come. And now you can, if you're curious, you must see your grandchildren learning just exponentially anything that interests them. What are, what are you observing?

Hadassah Lieberman (00:52:44):

Well, two of the kids, adult children mm-hmm. <affirmative> don't have TVs in their house.

Louise Palanker (00:52:51):

Oh, okay. Wow.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:52:53):

So, well, I just don't want it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they don't, they see too much going on. They don't like it. And obviously, um, some of the others are older and, you know, between college and age and high school and they're growing up and there also is a limited amount of time on their computers. I know our older daughters tried to do that. And the other kids as well. So I think we're all fearful about the impact this media has on our children. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we have to limit it. But look what's going on, people don't even, you have to block things or not allow them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the PE parents have no idea what's going on in some homes. Mm-hmm.

Louise Palanker (00:53:45):

<affirmative>, they don't, they don't, they don't know that. You know, we used to worry about where your kids were going physically. Now your kid could be on the couch with her phone and you don't know who she's talking to.

Fritz Coleman (00:53:55):

I have that discussion with my kids and I'll have it with my grandchildren. It's, it's so hard to grow up now for that very reason. And what I mean is, if you had a beef with somebody at school when you were in high school, when you went home for the weekend, that person was out of your life until you returned Monday. And so you had 48 hours to cool off the argument. Now the threats follow you home and you're bullied and attacked in your house, whether you're awake or asleep. It's, kids can't get away

Louise Palanker (00:54:22):

From it. And I think there's layers and layers of it that have gone on during the pandemic where it's just been, because it's all that they've been exposed to is their online social life. That's right. They still have this urgency to grow up and figure out who they are. So now they have to go back to school and face the people who've been billing, bullying them for a year and a half, and there's kids hiding in the bathroom. It's, it's really scary.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:54:43):

But, you know, the new thing with the parents mm-hmm. <affirmative> of people, lecture, psychologists, whatever, teachers, they want the parents to not be helicopter parents. I understand that. Totally. Okay.


But at the same time, we can't allow the whole world to take over our kids and teach them. Right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's dangerous. And I think we have to really get stricter this whole concept of what do you, it's all, what do you think? What would you like to do? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, how are you? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Now, I'm not saying my father knew the best way to train kids, but, and also, you know, there's certain things, you know, spank a kid, you know, I'm saying, not saying go back to that, but at the same time, we have to be con in control of our kids. If we wanna have control in our society, we don't wanna have our sidewalks dirtied up. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there are a lot of things we don't like, but God forbid we're not allowed to say or do anything anymore. Right. So we've gotta take care of ourselves. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you know what I wanna say to you mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that I appreciate the questions you asked and your kindness in trying to understand what I'm writing about. I really, really appreciate it. Cuz the only way that we can pat ourselves is with positiveness. Right.

Louise Palanker (00:56:22):

Right. That's so that's, that's so important. And it's so beautiful that you've infused your book and your life purpose and all, all that you embody. And so could you tell Fritz and I and our listeners what you are working on? What matters to you right now? And and to your husband and your family?

Hadassah Lieberman (00:56:39):

Well, you know, I was working hard on the book and immigrations, uh, I like to talk about things to be helpful in that arena and also all this stuff that we try to do. You try to influence people by what you say, by what you write. And we're concerned about the immigrant story. Not that we have all the answers, but it's a telltale item for the us the biggest mm-hmm. <affirmative> the biggest giant in the world of how you treat people. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And the other thing is, and I wrote about it in the book that, and I've written about it, is that divorce is something I experienced. And, and Joe and I have been married now 38 years and I've learned a lot and talk a lot about how let's not, and everyone's circumstances are different, but let's not label a step kid, a step kid. They're your kid. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. We have one family.

Fritz Coleman (00:57:53):

I love that you mentioned that in the book, that your children didn't grow up with that concept at all. I love

Louise Palanker (00:57:58):

That. They're in your family.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:57:59):

It's so, and it's so funny, our little one who's in, she's not so little, she's older now, who's in Israel. She, um, she always, and when she was little, she went to her daddy and said, oh, you know, I'm sorry, my, my siblings can go to their parents on a weekend and I only have to stay with you. So I said, Joey, that's why we've, we, uh, made divorce sound so civil. But she saying

Louise Palanker (00:58:29):

<laugh>. Oh, that's so cute.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:58:30):

You know? But it's important. And people have to really, and also you can't speak against an ex-spouse. Now, I understand right? Everyone has different situations. But think about your children. It's not worth elongating a speech about an ex-spouse because that's apparent to them. And we have to be respectful. And, you know, some, for some, it's our first child that we had with an ex-spouse mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we have to be respectful of all of that. I'm very, very lucky. And I wasn't in the beginning. I mean, you know, you take on kids and you know what? I worked hard at it and thank God every child I can, can I can ask to help me if I need them. And I like to help them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> whenever they have a

Fritz Coleman (00:59:27):

Need. Yeah. Your children's comments about how you were as a parent and, and their frankness about, you know, the, the blended family at the beginning beginning was very, was very inspirational.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:59:37):

Well, thank you. I, you know, when I read it, I knew some people would think, oh God, why are you, why are you putting that in? Well, I wanted to put it in cuz it's real and it's their words

Fritz Coleman (00:59:47):

And you had to include them or they would've felt left out if you didn't include them in it.

Hadassah Lieberman (00:59:50):


Louise Palanker (00:59:51):

Power them. I think, you know, when you're writing, when you're writing a book that includes your, your family, which is your life, which is part of your story, so you're gonna write about it, you know, giving them voice. I, I, I just think that's,

Fritz Coleman (01:00:05):

That was quite

Louise Palanker (01:00:06):

Good. That's brave and admirable because you could write only about them or you could say, and maybe you approached them each differently and said, would you like to write some passages? And some were more excited about it than others. I'm not sure of what your experiences were, but, you know, rather than just having, having to wait for mom's book, it was, oh, I'm, yeah. I'm not going, we're doing this together.

Fritz Coleman (01:00:28):

How did your children react to the book? Uh, Hadassah.

Hadassah Lieberman (01:00:30):

They, they really like it. And a couple times I was interviewed with our oldest daughter, <laugh> and our middle son, and that was very nice too. They, they really like it. And there's nothing, I made a point, I was not gonna say anything negative about a divorce, about a remarriage or with kids, you know, I wasn't gonna do that. So I did it in such a way that they're all comfortable.

Louise Palanker (01:01:05):

Oh, good.

Hadassah Lieberman (01:01:06):

You know, and that's, that's so important.

Fritz Coleman (01:01:08):

I went through the same experience and the lesson I learned was, and I, I was, I was religious about not talking down their mother. I went through their divorce and it paid off in spades. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because my older sons were much more perceptive than I gave them credit for. And when I went back to explain to them some of the, you know, the gray areas of why the divorce happened, they said, we understand that you don't have to explain that to us. We understand exactly why you're not together now. And, uh, and, and they get to an age when they can sort out the propaganda. If you talk negatively about a spouse, and then that's not their adult experience with them, they're gonna resent you for the rest of your life. So it, it, so I think you, you offer a good point there.

Hadassah Lieberman (01:01:54):

It's, so, it's, thank you. Thank you.

Louise Palanker (01:01:57):

Now what do you do? Because I have, I, you know, I haven't had a divorce and I've, I haven't been a parent, but what do you do when they get to an age of awareness, let's say 15 or 16, where they say, well, you know, dad or mom isn't, isn't dad a certain way? Uh, do you then validate what they're experiencing, even if it is a little bit negative? What, how do you balance that?

Hadassah Lieberman (01:02:17):

You know, it doesn't, how you balance it, everybody balances it differently. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. You have to be a realist. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you always, you know, I've had kids complain about one of their parents at various times, whatever, that's, you can't say anything. Mm. No. And you stick up for the parent

Fritz Coleman (01:02:41):

And you have to empower them to say, you're welcome to your opinion. If you feel this way about your dad, I can't take that away from That's your experience. Right.

Hadassah Lieberman (01:02:48):

And go talk about it with him. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, people, I've heard too many stories where, oh, people won't speak to a brother, they won't speak to it. You know, they're angry at a father, a mother. It's just, that's, it's not allowed. A family is a family and we have to shut our mouths and support our families. And why take it away? You know, I, I remember when we were going through our stuff in the beginning with the kids and my husband, he's a father to a kid. Okay. And he's married to me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But so how hard is it because you don't wanna be strangled on one side or the other. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. So you gotta work hard and silence is very important.

Louise Palanker (01:03:43):

<laugh>. Ah, Y y yeah. You don't have to take back something you haven't said, but you were kind of reminding me of politics. It, it, you know, because it's not, it's not, uh, uh, black or white. Nothing is right. It's all different shades. And there's a, there's a way to empathize or understand someone else's point of view without necessarily agreeing with it. But it's all of life is a balancing act. Right.

Hadassah Lieberman (01:04:09):

It's a struggle. It's a struggle. And that's what we have to teach our kids also, that life is a struggle.

Louise Palanker (01:04:16):

Right. And that it's not, and

Hadassah Lieberman (01:04:17):

They have to be strong all the time.

Louise Palanker (01:04:21):

Right, right.

Hadassah Lieberman (01:04:22):

And so it's, I really appreciate Any more questions? No,

Fritz Coleman (01:04:29):

No. I think for someone, somebody, we're setting the table. You, you need to, so I, I,

Hadassah Lieberman (01:04:32):

I know and I can't believe who it is.

Louise Palanker (01:04:35):

Is it, Joe? Can we meet him? Yep.

Hadassah Lieberman (01:04:37):

Joey, can you come here for a minute, baby?

Louise Palanker (01:04:40):

Do I get to call him Joey <laugh>? That would be thrilling.

Hadassah Lieberman (01:04:43):

Well, I know you're working, but you can come here for one minute,

Joe Lieberman (01:04:46):

Putting the dishes

Hadassah Lieberman (01:04:48):

Away. No, I know you are, but they just wanna say hi. I hope you're dressed fine. Okay. Here he is.

Joe Lieberman (01:04:56):

Hi. Hi folks.

Fritz Coleman (01:04:57):

Hi Senator. How are you?

Louise Palanker (01:04:58):

Hi, Senator. Nice to meet you. I'm doing

Joe Lieberman (01:05:01):

Well. At, uh, at, I was in Reach, ear reach, and it sounds like it was a great conversation.

Fritz Coleman (01:05:09):

It was a lovely

Louise Palanker (01:05:09):

Conversation. You were making a symphony of cutlery and we, we enjoyed it.

Fritz Coleman (01:05:13):

I, I think your, your wife's book is very important in continuing the story. And, and so we don't forget, and it gives us a great opportunity to thank you and your wife for your service to our country. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, those were good times for those of us who were in your

Joe Lieberman (01:05:29):

Thank you corn. Thanks for saying that. We were, it was, we were a blessed to have the opportunity, really, and stay

Fritz Coleman (01:05:37):

Healthy. We're

Joe Lieberman (01:05:37):

Grateful. Thank you. We're,

Louise Palanker (01:05:39):

We're grateful. You too. And we're grateful, uh, for both of you and for having met you. And, uh, you know, we're great admirers of, of all that you do and all, all that you have provided to, to the planet, really. And

Fritz Coleman (01:05:51):

If you were working at Pfizer right now, you'd be really busy.

Hadassah Lieberman (01:05:55):

Oh, oh

Louise Palanker (01:05:55):

My gosh. <laugh>. Oh,

Hadassah Lieberman (01:05:56):

I thought about that along the way. Yeah,

Fritz Coleman (01:05:59):

That's, they're having a good year, I guess.

Hadassah Lieberman (01:06:01):

<laugh>. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

Louise Palanker (01:06:02):

All right. We're gonna let you guys go eat and

Hadassah Lieberman (01:06:04):

Thank you.

Fritz Coleman (01:06:05):

Thank you so much aas. So what an honor

Hadassah Lieberman (01:06:07):

And save. Thank you. Appreciate

Louise Palanker (01:06:10):

It. We're gonna take, we have to do our closing credits though. Yeah. We'll do our, and thank you to Rick Rosenfeld, who's my cousin for setting this all up. And, uh, here come you're closing credits. We would love for you to join us online on Instagram and Twitter, where we are at Media Path Pod, and on Facebook where we are. Media Path Podcast. You can find full episodes with all kinds of bonus visual content on our YouTube channel Media Path podcast. We would love to know what media you've been enjoying. You can contact us at our social media or email us at Media Path We want thank our wonderful guest, Hadassah Lieberman, with a cameo appearance from Joe Lieberman. Our team includes Dean of Friedman, Francesco Demond, John Maddox, Sharon Beo, bill Philippic, Thomas Hubble, Mason Brown, and you. Our theme music is by me and John Maddox. I am Louise Planker here with Fritz Coleman, and we'll see you along the media path.

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