Episode 66

Fritz Coleman (00:04):

Welcome to Media Path. I'm Fritz Coleman.

Louise Palanker (00:06):

And I'm Louise Palanker.

Fritz Coleman (00:07):

Media path is your portal to pleasures waiting, viewing listening, pleasures. L and i Perus the A entertainment landscape and make little discoveries that we enjoy recommending to you. But the best part of this podcast is our fascinating guests. On a really good day like today, we have someone who is part of a cultural phenomenon on our televisions called The Waltons, where she played Mary Ellen Walton. Her life has been rich and full since the Walton's and world. Learn all about it in just a few minutes. She's Judy Norton. Can't wait to talk about it. But first, Weezy, what do you have for us?

Louise Palanker (00:44):

Well, first, you know how Cher and I are best friends and we do everything together. I

Fritz Coleman (00:47):

Do know that

Louise Palanker (00:48):

<laugh>, so if you're not following Cher on Twitter, she is a ride. Shera is big on emojis, not so big on hitting the space bar. She frankly doesn't have the time. She's expressive, and she will occasionally tweet back to you. So here we have an exchange where Cher wrote, have you ever had a time when one huge problem follows another? When you're actually responsible for many lives at the same time? When someone disappoints you, someone betrays you another rupture world and not in a good way, then it finally all hits you. Explosion. Kaboom. This has turned out to be a rough day, sad, crying face. And I responded, I wish I were emoji fluent enough to send you something soothing and healing. Let me see, maybe, yeah, dolphins and soup. And then Cher wrote back to me at Louise Lanker, here's a few more. And then she just spilled out emoji confetti at me, and I feel like she and I are really have reached in the next level of our relationship.

Fritz Coleman (01:46):

But, but she'd been interacting with her for a while, right?

Louise Palanker (01:49):

Well, one time I said something teasing to her about, uh, like perhaps, you know, the malfunctioning of her space bar. And she wrote back, I'm 78. You know, <laugh>, <laugh>, whatever her age is, she share is ageless, timeless. But, uh, you know, Fritz, we promise that if you are a home viewer, review our show at Apple Podcast. That there is every possibility that we may read a review right here on the show, and you have stepped up to the challenge. And we thank you. Now, Fritz is gonna read excerpts.

Fritz Coleman (02:17):

Let's do it. This is from Thank Evan, don't Miss Media Path, this podcast from local legend Fritz Coleman. I added that, but, and the delightful Luis Lanker is so fascinating and fun. We got hooked when they did a deep dive with Bill Schnee, the music engineer behind such names of Chicago, uh, Barbara Streit Sand, Whitney Houston, and many more. But it's not just music, but many ideas that fascinate from the two tune in. And the second one is from K T A.

Louise Palanker (02:51):

It's Kathy Kuk. She's my college roommate. Go for it.

Fritz Coleman (02:54):

<laugh>. Oh, okay. Media path. Informative, winning, entertaining. Louise Fritz. Amazed with their knowledge of books, movies, music history, current events, entertainment in general. They are not only knowledgeable, but entertaining in their rapport with each other. And their humor, their enthusiasm is contagious. And I'm always learning something new. I feel like this is like a Tinder bio. I enjoy finding out what these actors, entertainers are doing now who are performed. Many years ago, I really enjoyed the podcast with Anson Williams. Amazing to find out that his second cousin was Henry Heimlick and how he ended up on Merv Griffin. Interesting side stories like these keep the podcast entertaining and, uh, most enjoyable. Thank

Louise Palanker (03:36):

You for reviewing our show. We appreciate you. So Fritz, what have you been watching? Oh, am I gonna go first because you have one and I, I think so. Okay. All right. So I read a book called The Forest of Vanishing Stars by Kristen Harel. Yona was stolen from her crib at the age of two by a mysterious old woman who lives in the woods and raises the child in the heart of the forest, teaching her it's bounty, it's dangers, and its secrets, and fully preparing her to one day sustain and guide a group of brave Jews through the terrors of World War ii. They, in turn teach her what it means to belong to a community, inspired by the incredible true stories of Jews who really did survive the war in the woods of Poland and Belarus the forest of vanishing stars as the heart-wrenching and suspenseful novel from the number one internationally best-selling author Kristen Harel.

(04:20):

And at the end of the book, Fritz, in the author's notes, she talks about a Facebook group called Friends and Fiction, which she leads with four other bestselling authors, Mary Kay Andrews, Mary Alice Monroe, Patty Callahan Henry. You need at least three names to be a bestselling author, Fritz Christie, Woodson Harvey, and Kristen Harel. The group description reads, we discuss books writing and invite fabulous authors to join us all while highlighting one independent bookstore. Each week we invite you to post your questions for us or for our guests on our f and f page, and we will do our best to answer them. So join in the fun Welcome. So if you are frequently on the hunt for your next great read, this is a wonderful group with loads of suggestions and conversations.

Fritz Coleman (05:05):

Very cool. Yep. Well, I'm doing a movie. Everybody's been waiting for the Many Saints of Newark, and it's the prequel to the Sopranos series on H B O. Oh, yeah. Uh, it, it's, it's, you know, the Sopranos backstory, it takes place in one of the most tumultuous periods in the history of Newark, New Jersey. It's about a young Anthony Soprano becoming a man just as rival gangs start to rise up and challenge the all powerful de Mayo crime family. This is early sixties parts of Newark burned as a result of racial violence. So it's race politics, all mixed in with mob politics. Young Anthony idolizes his uncle Dickie molt, ta Santi. His relationship with Uncle Dickie is what shapes him into the powerful Mob boss we've come to know as Tony Soprano. Now, the most fun of this movie to me was Ray Yoder for My Money, one of our greatest actors. And he gets to play a pair of twins with lots of screen time in this. But this is the revelation. The young Anthony Soprano is played by Michael Gandini, who is the son of the late James Gandolfini, who was Tony Soprano in the series. And honestly, he pulls it off. The question that remains unanswered is, will there be a sequel or two to this movie, or will the movie set the stage for another H B O series? And as they say, nobody's talking right now,

Louise Palanker (06:24):

Maybe they just go further and further back in time until we're in Italy and it's like, they could forget this.

Fritz Coleman (06:29):

Like the Godfather,

Louise Palanker (06:30):

Let's go to America,

Fritz Coleman (06:31):

Go to Sicily

Louise Palanker (06:32):

And break some limbs.

Fritz Coleman (06:34):

It was pretty good. I mean, it's violent, but it's, it's interesting. And I, I just love Ray Leotta so much.

Louise Palanker (06:39):

Yeah, he is great. I have one more pick before we get to Judy. Let's do it. This is called Acapulco on Apple Plus. You know, I'm a big, big fan of the Apple Plus streaming service. They have really good program and they have programming that's low on torture, low on mayhem, and then I'm a fan of that kind of stuff. So, unlike the Sopranos, no offense, in 1984, young and ambitious Maximo Guyardo lands the job of his dreams as a cabana boy at the Glamorously Posh Lost Colinas Resort in Acapulco, Mexico. He quickly learns that the position requires him to wrestle relentlessly with moral dilemmas and ethical quandaries, which will mold his character and impact the arc of his life. The 10 episode story unfolds as the fully mature and hugely successful Maximo conveys its twists, turns, and lessons to his 14 year old nephew. The show is warm, fun and funny. And Fritz, it's bilingual. So you can practice your Spanish by trying not to read the subtitles. It's called Acapulco, and you'll find it on Apple. Plus,

Fritz Coleman (07:36):

My writing partners and I wrote a sitcom that had to be bilingual. Okay. And it failed miserably because it had to be American and Spanish,

Louise Palanker (07:44):

Because you guys didn't speak any Spanish. Yeah. Thank you. All right.

Fritz Coleman (07:47):

Okay. Here now is a lady, uh, that you know for her role as Mary Ellen Walton on The Waltons from 1972 to 19 81, 9 Seasons, 221 episodes. The Walton's was an American historical drama about a family in rural Virginia during the Depression in World War ii. And then after that, Judy went on to become a very successful director and writer and producer and singer. She has her own YouTube channel where she often answers questions about life in the Walton family. She's got a web series right now called The Quarantine Bunch. She's also apparently an adrenaline junkie. Ah, she's into horse jumping, into skydiving, into skiing, and the much more sane tennis <laugh>. We're so happy to welcome Judy Norton. Hello, Judy.

Judy Norton (08:32):

Hello

Fritz Coleman (08:33):

<laugh>. Wow. So nice to have you here.

Louise Palanker (08:35):

But it's, I'm bilingual tennis to that

Fritz Coleman (08:37):

Bio. Well, there you go. Try to live up to some of the things I mentioned in the bio <laugh>. Now, Judy, the Waltons was based on the book Spencer's Mountain by Earl Hamner, who grew up in Skylar, Virginia at the start of the Depression. And a lot of these Walton tales were based on Earl's actual life, or reasonable facsimiles, right?

Judy Norton (08:56):

That is correct. You know, I don't know exactly which stories or how much, uh, was based on real things, but occasionally he'd mentioned different people or, or circumstances that he based things on. Um, and from Spencer's Mountain, which was turned into a movie with Maureen O'Hara and, um, James MacArthur, uh, James MacArthur and, um, Henry Fonda. Ah, and then later he, uh, wrote the book, the Homecoming, which became the Christmas TV Special, the Homecoming, which ended up, uh, sort of launching then the series. And you got to meet Earl Hamner, correct? Oh, yeah. He was around all the time. He was, uh, a creative consultant. He was a producer. He did all the narration. So he was, he was there regularly. He oversaw a lot of what went on and really kind of was the quality checkpoint on the show.

Fritz Coleman (09:51):

And I, I guess it was kind of like the Harper Lee scenario, whereas people knew that he was from Skylar. And so it became like a tourist destination to go down there and see the house that was referenced in the Waltons. And they would meet people in the family, and they were very sort of forthcoming with their, um, welcoming nature down there. And people, people would make pilgrimages down there to meet the family.

Judy Norton (10:14):

Y yeah, he talked about how his mother, if someone would come and knock on the door, she'd, you know, sit and have tea with 'em, iced tea, whatever, um, and would, would be very gracious and answer questions. Uh, I'm not sure exactly where the rest of the members of Earl's brothers and sisters, where they were exactly located, and how many of them were still in the Skylar area. Uh, we as a cast were invited there in the early 1990s. Uh, when they turned what had been a community center, it had originally been the schoolhouse that was literally across the street from where Earl's, the Hamner house was, and where they went to school. Later on, it became a community center. And then as economic hardship hit the area, someone local got the idea to turn that community center into a Walton Museum, <laugh>. And we were all invited down for the opening of that.

(11:09):

And that's really what put it on the, on the map then, because thousands of people showed up for that. And then they would have yearly reunions there. And then it sort of expanded from there. There is now a replica of the Walton House that is John and Olivia's bed and breakfast, which sits right across the street from that museum. And people can literally stay in bedrooms that are recreations from the house on the downstairs is eerily like being on the set. Wow, that's great. It's just, it was like so deja vu. Um, a number of members of the cast went and stayed there in the rooms for the opening weekend. And we sat in that kitchen and that living room and went, wow, this is like flashback time. That

Louise Palanker (11:53):

Is wonderful. Now, when you were with Earl Hamner, would you, I know you were a kid for most of it, and you went from like age 13 to age 23 on the show, correct?

Judy Norton (12:03):

Yes.

Louise Palanker (12:04):

Did you ask him questions about the character that you were based on

Judy Norton (12:08):

The system? A little bit, but, uh, unfortunately when we're young, we're not always smart enough to take advantage of the resources we have around us. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, isn't that true? There were so many amazing people I worked with that. Now I go, what was I thinking? I know. I wasn't,

Louise Palanker (12:23):

You were busy growing

Judy Norton (12:24):

Up. Yeah. I have these amazing people that had these incredible histories that I just didn't sit and pump 'em for fabulous stories. But, uh,

Louise Palanker (12:32):

You do. You don't know what you don't know meet.

Judy Norton (12:34):

Yes. I, I did get to meet, uh, Marion Hamner Hawks, who Mary Ellen was based upon a, a a couple times. She was so gracious, so lovely. And I, I really adored her. Uh, so, uh, a little bit of interaction there, but not as much as I would've liked cuz she lived in Virginia. Mm-hmm.

Fritz Coleman (12:53):

<affirmative>, describe Mary Ellen's character.

Judy Norton (12:55):

Oh, she was a tomboy. She was a rebel. She was a non-conformist. She was really very early women's movement <laugh>, but she didn't know it. Uh, she just was determined that she didn't want a tradition, what she saw as a traditional path for a woman. She didn't, she thought it would be just uneventful to grow up and get married and have children and take care of a house. She wanted to be an actress or a tightrope walker or something more, far more worldly than what she saw as her environment growing up in rural Virginia during the Depression. Uh, so she was such fun to play, you know, because of all of that.

Louise Palanker (13:36):

How much were the characters based on you guys, your personalities as actors? Did it evolve in that direction or were you all cast because you were like his siblings that you were portraying?

Judy Norton (13:47):

Um, I think there was a combination. Originally they were, because in the Homecoming there was a whole thing about how there were all these redheads and there were a few of us who weren't natural redheads that were hired. And fortunately, I, I was one of 'em. I remember going into this was for the Homecoming, and I remember going into that audition and wearing shorts and, you know, like cutoff shorts, hair and pigtails, barefoot t-shirt, and just with lots of attitude <laugh>, you know. And evidently Earl said when I came in, they were, he was just like, that's, that's Mary Ellen. Aw. So thank goodness, uh, most, a number of the other actors, young actors were natural redheads. And they did dye my hair for the Homecoming. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> in sort of an Auburn red. Um, a number of them are natural redheads. So that was, that was a story point.

(14:42):

And I believe that it was, it was kind of a mix. Like I was totally, as you read from my bio into sports and adrenaline things. And so kind of the tomboy aspect came naturally to me. Uh, I was a, I was a wannabee rebel. I just didn't always have the courage to be as much of a rebel as Mary Ellen <laugh>. So I loved playing the character because I could be all this, this rebellious character without the consequences I felt I would've suffered in real life that I did not rebellious. Uh, so I think a lot of the characters evolved from the natural characteristics we brought to the original audition. And then I think the characters grew based on a lot of what we brought to them. You know, John Wamsley, who played Jason did really play the harmonica and the guitar and the piano and all kinds of other things. So that became a real story point for his character. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and they, you know, they sort of did different aspects of that that they, I think began to write for what we were creating with the character. As often happens with a long running show,

Fritz Coleman (15:53):

I think you have to look at where these shows show up in American and TV history to understand their impact. For instance, the Waltons and Little House on the Prairie came after we had just been through the sixties. There was a lot of political and family discord because of Vietnam and everything else, and, and Family Discord because of the changing attitudes in the sixties. And these shows were like a touchstone. They would remind people what was important in life. It was like a safe haven for people who wanted to protect the structure of their family. Do you, do you, do you agree with that? I mean, it just seems like shows that have a lot of impact sort of plug themselves into the history, the zeitgeist of the time.

Judy Norton (16:38):

I, I mean, I would certainly hope so. I know that at the time the show was being considered as a series cuz it was not originally meant to be a series. It was just meant to be a Christmas TV special. Then my, what I had heard was that it was, it was a time when the networks were getting a lot of pressure from the moral majority and that the network basically agreed to put the Waltons on with the feeling that, oh, it's a nice little family show. We're getting all this heat about doing family programming. It'll last for, you know, five or six episodes and that'll be the end of it. And it was kind of like a throwaway, they thought, yeah, we'll show 'em that nobody really wants to watch this. That was a story I heard. And of course, wow, it couldn't have been more false that the country completely embraced the Waltons.

(17:28):

It was not necessarily so big a hit in some place like New York City, like big urban cities, but, you know, middle America and smaller really family, um, family communities just embraced it. And the producers went to smaller towns and newspapers and took out ads and did interviews and articles and stuff, you know, saying, please save this beautiful show and don't let it, don't let it disappear. And that we went from our ratings in that first year. We were very low in the ratings and over the course of this campaign of this whole first season, we rose to the top and ended up in, you know, like the top five. And we were number one for years. So we really, the show found its audience, which shows don't have a chance to do anymore. And I'm so grateful for mm-hmm. That, that structure that existed at that time with only three networks, that our season pickup was 26 episodes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not like, let's do three and see what happens. Right, right, right. So we had time to find our audience and find our characters in that rhythm and everything that became the heart of the show. Right, right, right. Uh, but we had no idea the impact we were having at the time we were doing it. You know, that's, we were now in the seventies, so I was trying to be cool, you know, <laugh>.

Louise Palanker (18:45):

No, and I mean that's, that's another thing that you don't really know when you're a kid and your, your, your main focus is just creating yourself. So how has your Walton childhood impacted your grown life? I mean, for us, taking in the show's messages and lessons was meaningful for us, for we viewers, but how did it impact the actors? Were you able to take that in as well? What the show was teaching us?

Judy Norton (19:09):

Uh, to a a great degree, yes. Because they were such beautifully written scripts that they raised questions about people and cultures and religion and, and points of view that the Waltons really represented a very, um, open and the compassionate, they were, they would embrace people and strangers and, and ask questions and, and they were, you know, they weren't biased or prejudiced. And so all of that were wonderful lessons to be surrounded by. Uh, but then I think even more than the stories at the time was the, the working environment was working with the rest of this cast who we are like a family. So those relationships and the working environment and everything that went on those things, you know, hugely impacted my life as well, you know, for someone who wanted to pursue a career in this business, to have that opportunity and to be doing that for nine months out of the year Yeah.

(20:13):

And all of what that meant. And then learning how that meant by interaction with people that saw the show went. So those things really build who you are as a person. And it still, it still does because, you know, the show has as much an impact now it seems as it did at the time. I mean, that's what I'm discovering with this YouTube channel of mine, is I started it just for fun cuz I thought, oh, well maybe I can share some things with the fans during Covid and, and you know, let 'em let 'em know how much we all appreciate how much they love the show and hear all these stories of what the show meant to them. And, and so these relationships form, we have loyal fans that have been watching the show for 50 years and they come to these reunions and they think of us as family. Mm-hmm. So all of that, I mean, you can't not have an experience from all of that. Mm-hmm.

Fritz Coleman (21:02):

<affirmative>, what was your daily work a day like, uh, uh, work a Day Life like for somebody your age? Uh, um, young, uh, tween and early teen. I mean, there's a lot of work in 26 episodes a year. And what was it like? Did you do onset schooling and that type of thing?

Judy Norton (21:23):

We did during what would normally be the school year. So we were required, uh, by state law to, uh, work, have a, a welfare worker's teacher on the set. And whenever school would've normally been in session, then we were required to do three hours of schooling a day at the studio. And we had teachers there, it was just for our cast. Or if we had a guest star who was young enough that they were there for an episode and needed to attend school during the summer when you wouldn't be in school. We didn't have to do schoolwork. They were not allowed to give us homework. Uh, and if there was a day when you had a really heavy work schedule, you might not get your three hours. Uh, or you might get them in 20 minute increments between setups, between, okay, we've shot that, now we're gonna relight and stuff and go away and you'd get 20, 30 minutes of, of schoolwork. What

Fritz Coleman (22:17):

A horrible way to learn algebra. Oh my god. <laugh> and 20 minute Incre.

Judy Norton (22:21):

It was like, you'd be the middle of something, it's like, and then you get called away <laugh>, and we couldn't count it if it wasn't at least 20 minutes. So you might go in for 10 minutes and then they go up, we need you. So you couldn't count it, but you didn't get anything done. So it was piecemeal, but then you'd have days where you weren't really in scenes that day, so you'd do your three hours unbroken and you'd put in extra time for those days when you couldn't get the three hours. But the teachers were wonderful. I thought it was a tremendous education because it was one-on-one. I was the only one in my grade. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I was the only one doing those classes. So the things I needed one-on-one help with, I got, and that was not the case in public school prior to that. You know, sometimes you can kind of get lost and you don't always get the one-on-one help that you need. So I was very impressed by the whole system and the way it protected all of us and our education.

Louise Palanker (23:09):

And it's impossible to measure what you were learning on the, on that set with all those adult professionals that I wasn't learning in a classroom of other people my age, <laugh> only talking to people who knew what I knew.

Judy Norton (23:23):

Absolutely. You know, you're, you are surrounded by people and people in the entertainment industry can be some of the most fascinating people. They had the most varied backgrounds and, you know, the, I mean, will Gear had a, you know, had a degree in botany and, you know, he could, he could sit there and tell you that Latin names of all the plants on the on, and he planted that garden that was to be the Walton Garden in the outside the house will gear planted that Oh wow. For real on the back lot of the studio. And so he would, he was in education. He, you know, would quote Shakespeare and Woody Guthrie and Mark Twain and <laugh>. And then when, when I either thought to ask or someone told me anyway, the stories I, I learned from people that had been in the industry for years and years and just you're, I mean, I, I knew the forties history from living it. I knew a lot of the historical events from doing episodes about them. Right. So those things just, you know, don't really happen in day-to-day life. So I never felt like I was missing out by being a, working, working during, I thought I was getting the best gift of all mm-hmm. <affirmative> to be able to be pursuing what I loved instead of just sitting in school reading textbooks all day.

Fritz Coleman (24:31):

Do you still have a relationship with any of our cast members?

Judy Norton (24:34):

Oh, totally. All of them. Yeah. Wow. I mean, we, we talk regularly. Uh, we are, because next year is the 50th anniversary of, oh God, the Waltons. Um, we have been talking about different sorts of things that might enable us to celebrate the 50th with fans and stuff. And actually one of the things that that's gonna be done next year is gonna be happening up in Canada through, um, Trafalgar Tours and Wendy Dunham travels, and that we're gonna do a, uh, a travel with the Waltons sort of, you know, from Toronto into Niagara on the lake and up, you know, and, and do some, some events that the, the members of the cast will attend. So some of these things are being organized and planned, and next year is gonna involve some of those, let's celebrate the 50th of the Waltons, which is impossible.

Louise Palanker (25:27):

Wow.

Judy Norton (25:28):

It seems like yesterday. I'm like, now I couldn't have been doing it that long or that long ago. And I, you know, but yes. But, so we're close. So, you know, a bunch of us have been kind of, or getting, talking and zooming and doing all kinds of things to figure out what we wanna do for the 50th. And so especially the younger cast, I mean, we, we do, we, I'm gonna be seeing several of them in another week or so for a, you know, a personal private family event, um, you know, for one of a cast members and stuff. So that kind of stuff happens all the time. Or we hop on the phone or we zoom or, you know, siblings, family siblings are like, yeah, they're, we're stuck with each other. <laugh>.

Louise Palanker (26:03):

No, yeah, no, I I, I get it. And I think that the fans love hearing that as well. Right. They love knowing that this was a tightly knit group of people who became siblings. Yeah.

Judy Norton (26:11):

Uh, yeah. Which doesn't always happen with, with shows. And we didn't know how special it was until we started hearing that that wasn't normal, that other casts, we all went to lunch together every day, the kids,

Louise Palanker (26:23):

Fritz. And I never speak outside of this room. That's

Fritz Coleman (26:26):

A very, very contentious relationship. It'll rear its ugly head during this podcast. But do you have a, do you have a favorite, um, uh, emotional moment in the show? A favorite episode? Uh, a favorite moment that you had in your own performance that is your fondest memory?

Judy Norton (26:42):

It's so tough with, as you said, 220 something episodes, uh, that that's, you know, I, I, I know that certain things stood out, you know, Richard's last episode, Richard Thomas, uh, knowing that he was, this would be the last step because we were so close. And it's like, wow, you know, he's not gonna be here every episode. You know, he's, he's been my brother for all these years and he's not gonna be there. So things like that. I, I remember them shooting, shooting that scene, and, you know, and just being really sad, you know, because it's like you're, we're breaking up the family <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, and some of the location stuff that, that we did, I mean, there were memorable things like when we did the episode where the house burned and, and we shot one Friday night and there was fire coming outta windows. And, you know, family members were supposed to be stuck, trapped in the house. And those were just incredibly emotional to shoot because they felt so real. We knew we were shooting, but, you know, they just felt so real. Uh, and that, that was, it was always so easy to do the show because they created such a sense of realism in the stories. And for the most part, they were really beautifully written. So you just kind of had to show up and, and do it.

Louise Palanker (28:07):

What do people most wanna know? And you've, I'm sure you've had a chance throughout your adult life to communicate with fans, but now that you have this YouTube channel, it seems like you've got this ongoing conversation. What do people most Yeah,

Judy Norton (28:19):

I do these Ask Judy segments where I just p literally, I do, I go through the comments and I pull questions that, you know, I think haven't already been covered or that interest me, or it's like, oh, that's different, you know, and I'll take that up and I pull those questions, and then I put together a list of the questions, and I do a segment and answer the questions. And I do those, you know, every once a week, twice a week I do those seg, or twice a month, I do those sorts of segments. Uh, so, you know, the, the, one of the typical things I've heard over the years is, do we all really get along? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that is a really common question. Uh, so, uh, and people are, are always really happy to know that we are like a real family and that we do stay in touch and that we are, that we're close

Louise Palanker (29:00):

To continue. Along that thread, who were you closest with? Was it age related? Who people were closest with and who are you closest with now?

Judy Norton (29:08):

Uh, yeah. It, it did shift over the, over the course of the series because of our ages. So early on, uh, me and John Walmsley, who played Jason and Eric Scott, who played Ben, we were the sort of the closest in age. We were like 13 and 15 in that area. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, whereas the others were like, Mary, who played Erin was like 10. So the difference between 10 and 13 is more significant than the difference between 15 and 18 mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So as the show went on, then I became closer to Mary, and then Leslie Winston, who came into play, Eric's wife, Cindy, the three of us. And Camie would tag along. She was still a little bit younger, but we'd let her, we'd let her join in sometimes. <laugh> <laugh>. Yeah. She heard a lot of stuff beyond her years. <laugh> when she bet she did. Still young from, not just from us, but from the a adults too.

(30:01):

Uh, and the adults felt a lot like there was, that for me, the sense of an age gap, it's like, oh, I, I, it wasn't something where you as easily made friends with because they still felt like adults. And I still felt like a teenager. Uh, I was pretty close to Richard throughout, because he kind of floated between those two. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, Ellen Corby gave me a lot of advice, will Gear always had a lot of advice. I didn't always relate to him. He was kind of like this, wow, this kind of, you know, throwback, hippie kind of a guy that I was like, I don't quite know what to make him as a teenage girl, you know, <laugh>. But I get asked about him all the time. Every, every time I went someplace, they were like, oh, will Gear was here. And it's like, of course he was <laugh> because he traveled so much and he would, you know, he would always go out and meet people. He was very gregarious that way. He

Fritz Coleman (30:54):

Still has that theatrical botanica Yes. Theater out in his daughter in Topanga or, uh, Malibu, somewhere where they do outdoor theater performances.

Judy Norton (31:03):

Absolutely. Still there. And he, that's where he lived for, you know, all through the Waltons. He lived on that property. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. It is it, there is a, there is a house there, and one of his daughters, a couple of his daughters still run. It's, it's still family run theater company. Ellen Gear, his daughter's very involved. She directs a lot of stuff, as does one of his other daughters. And I think he has granddaughters who are part of it. Uh, so it's, it's still there. And you know, his, uh, there's a, a Shakespeare garden that he put together there, and his ashes are there and there's a, you know, a bus memorium to him. And, uh, so yeah, you,

Fritz Coleman (31:43):

You blossomed in many other show business areas when you've retired from the Waltons, including being a really interesting writer. Interesting. In the, in the body of work you've done, including a film that's been described as brilliant called the Inclusion Criteria. It's on prime video right now mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and this is so interesting, I think in very timely right now, uh, in this era of data driven lives that we all live, A woman doesn't know if she's going crazy or she's being manipulated, which is just a fascinating topic. What is inclusion criteria? It's actually a technical phrase used by data people, right?

Judy Norton (32:22):

It is, I mean, it's, um, it has to do with Yeah. The parameters of a study or something like that. What, what pieces are part of something? A study that you're doing, a scientific study or whatever, what do you include in it? What are those criteria that are included in it in a sense? Um, my husband works in, you know, is more of a scientist, so I was like, honey, I need a, I need a name for this. And he threw that out me. It's like, what would you call if you were doing a study? He goes, oh, like an inclusion cri, you know? Anyway, he, he was responsible for that and a lot of people were confused about it, so we, it, it got renamed at one point. So it's also, uh, uh, is found under the title Nowhere to Hide. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, but yeah, I,

Fritz Coleman (33:04):

Which one? Some, uh, independent film awards was

Judy Norton (33:07):

It did, yeah.

Fritz Coleman (33:08):

Well received.

Judy Norton (33:09):

And it, um,

Fritz Coleman (33:10):

But but do you find it, I mean, now with all the Facebook arguing we're doing right now, that, I mean, that whole idea of being manipulated by data and all that kind of stuff, it just seems to resonate right now. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (33:19):

We call it gaslighting too. Yeah. <laugh>. When you, no, when you, when you, when someone is made to feel like they're the ones that are going crazy mm-hmm.

Fritz Coleman (33:25):

<affirmative>. Yep.

Judy Norton (33:26):

Yeah. Well, I mean, in this particular case, um, the, I, the concept came to me because of something I read that was talking about, uh, actually in World War ii that experiments were being done with mind control, medication, drugs. Oh, wow. And, uh, I didn't know if it was entirely true, but it was a really scary concept. And so I wrote this hypothetical thing about what if this kind of experimentation was being done and someone didn't know it was being done, and so she becomes a victim of this kind of experimentation. That's kind of a spoiler, but, you know, you can find out what goes on along the way. And it was interesting because at the original premiere, Michael Leonard, who played my mom, mama Walton, was there with her husband who served in Vietnam. Oh. And after they saw the, the movie, and I was talking to some of the reporters after, and I was talking a little bit about where this came from, and he goes, absolutely, that's true. Wow. And, you know, he talked about, you know, from his experience in Vietnam, somehow being aware of, you know, or hearing about that kind of experimentation being done. And so I felt like, you know, there is so much, in my opinion, over medication going on for all kinds of things that it, it scares me. And so the thought that something like this could go on, I thought, you know, I'd like to shine some light on it and see, and, you know,

Fritz Coleman (34:53):

That, that, that's so interesting because what you say is true. And now because of the Freedom of Information Act, we're finding out about all these L s d experiments that the CIA did on soldiers. We also know about the Tuskegee medical experimentation done on African Americans, which as it turns out in our current environment, is part of the reason why, uh, blacks are having a difficult time believing information about the Covid vaccine. So it's been harder to convince them to do it. So that whole thing that you brought up in that film was very, very ker, I think.

Judy Norton (35:26):

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I, I mean, I, I thought so. And so, you know, I thought, what the heck? I, I wanted, if I'm gonna do something, I wanted to do something that, you know, was important to me. Um, yeah. Cuz that's, I mean, I feel like within this industry we have that opportunity to have a voice. And so how you use it, uh, you know, can say a lot about mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, the direction you're going and the direction that things go. I mean, when you talk about the impact of the Waltons and what the impact that's had on the culture, and sometimes when I look at so much programming that's happening now, and I hear fans of our show saying that they just watched the three runs of the Waltons because they don't relate to or don't care for a lot of the programming that's happening now.

(36:12):

And I mean, I would certainly love to see, you know, a bit of a, you know, renaissance within the entertainment industry and, you know, I think we've gone through the shock and awe phase of, you know, let's see how far we can push the boundaries mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, but sometimes to take a look at do these, do these stories and do these messages really, are they important? Are they valuable? You know, or is it just an opportunity to express your own frustration or anger or whatever? And is that helpful to other people? I think that there is a responsibility connected with being in this business. Well said. You know, when you, when you have a public forum mm-hmm. <affirmative> and what are you, what are you doing with it? And I know we don't always have the same opinion and people are entitled to like what they like and have opinions, but, you know, it's such an open, you talk about the technology and the data that's out there now, you know, everything you say and do, you know, can be seen and heard and you know, people.

(37:12):

So, you know, I mean, I don't think, I was always trying to tell younger people beware. You know, especially if you wanna get into the entertainment industry. Be, be aware of what you put on your social media mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because if somebody contacts me and says, oh, I wanna do blah, blah, blah, you know, and I'm considering using them in a project, I will look at their social media and see what they're posting. Okay. And I, you know, if I feel like they're spewing a lot of hate stuff on their social media, I'm like, I don't, this isn't a person I want to be connected with. Right. So those things do come back and people are looking so, you know, be aware of what impression you're putting out there and is it the one you really want out there?

Fritz Coleman (37:49):

You brought up a really interesting point a couple of points ago, and that is that people find safe haven in watching the Waltons and reruns now. But if you look at it, that show was framed in the gloom and doom of the Depression in World War ii, which kind of mirrors the political gloom and doom that we find ourselves in here. And what it, what's proven in both eras is the family is all that's important. So you find safe haven in your family and, and having healthy relationships with

Louise Palanker (38:21):

Your left, not just the family too, Fritz, but the Waltons for me is about how we treat each other. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> the choices we make every day. Yep. Because they, they're faced with all these challenges, the different people that they encounter, and it's how they consistently treat people. That's my takeaway about, about the Waltons. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, go ahead, Judy.

Judy Norton (38:39):

No, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, it, I think it sets an incredible example and, and one, you know, as, as a role model of characters and family and all that. And right now I think, yeah, people have gone through 18 months of confusion and resettling and, and, you know, change and, you know, to get back to more fundamental things in terms of, you know, your family, your community, and those connections and that, cuz that's ultimately the people you're gonna rely on in the, you're gonna be there for. And I always loved that the Waltons did, they always supported each other. They were always there to back each other up. And that to me is a, is a beautiful thing. And family can be the family you're born with or the family you create with from the people that you choose to have in your life.

Louise Palanker (39:26):

But an episode that you were looking at on your YouTube channel was, I think called The Boy from the c c C. And, uh, he's this kid that is <laugh> Grandma doesn't trust him. And then, you know, and you tell the story and you show little clips, and then you say, that's another person whose life was changed for having encountered the Waltons.

Judy Norton (39:46):

Yeah. And the Waltons were impacted by the people they met. Right. They learned new things and their thoughts and minds were, uh, opened up to new things. You know, John boy, learning about Hell's Kitchen was like fascinating to him. It's like, wow, you know, that, that you could live in an environment where you didn't just have food available, you couldn't plant a garden, you couldn't go out hunting. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's like, wow, you know, that you might feel that your only option if you were starving was to steal, you know, that was a new concept to him, you know?

Louise Palanker (40:18):

Right. Yeah. There's just, there's, there's a lot there. And I think there are good shows as Fritz you're talking about, you know, comparing the, the time periods. But we do have so much available to us on streaming media. Maybe a lot of the focus goes to the shows that are more violent and the more exploit exploitive. But there are good shows. Like, yes. Some of the ones that we try to point out on our little podcast here that have, that have good themes, good values, good messages, uh, you just have to look a little bit

Judy Norton (40:46):

It do. Yeah. I think there's always things to find and there's always, and people do have different tastes. Yeah. So I think right now there is that opportunity for people to find what appeals to them and yeah, there's, you know, there's a lot of things that I'm really enjoying and the way, the way the industry has grown and the what's available and from a technological standpoint within the industry makes it so much easier for this variety of stuff to happen. So yeah, people do just have to dig around and find the gems. Mm-hmm.

Louise Palanker (41:18):

<affirmative>. Now, Judy, I wanna talk about a turning point in your career. This is a moment that you realized that you were on a lunchbox. Now I'm sure that this was

Judy Norton (41:25):

<laugh>, this

Louise Palanker (41:27):

Was something that

Judy Norton (41:29):

<laugh>,

Louise Palanker (41:30):

That you thought, and I am

Judy Norton (41:31):

An action figure

Louise Palanker (41:31):

Too. Are you an action?

Judy Norton (41:33):

I am an action figure.

Louise Palanker (41:34):

So here are, here's the Waltons, and I guess you're birthing a calf, which Waltons are prone to do. And then here you are changing a tire. So it goes from, you know, farm to technology. And uh, I guess there, there's little pictures all the way around. Uh, here's grandpa getting a haircut. That was a key moment.

Judy Norton (41:53):

<laugh>. So

Louise Palanker (41:54):

Do you remember, but you were a kid, so do you remember when this happened and if you ever saw a friend of yours carrying this particular lunchbox?

Judy Norton (42:01):

I, I did not ever see a friend carrying the lunchbox. I do not have the lunchbox. Ah, I do have the action figure and I do have the game. Um, there was not a lot of Walton merchandise. What

Louise Palanker (42:12):

Happens in the game? How do you win?

Judy Norton (42:14):

I'm not sure. I've never played it. Cause the game escape the

Louise Palanker (42:18):

House Fire <laugh> escape the house fire.

Judy Norton (42:20):

Exactly. <laugh>. And if you win, you get, you know, you get to pick the corn in the garden,

Louise Palanker (42:26):

You get to name the calf.

Judy Norton (42:27):

<laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>.

(42:30):

But yeah, it's quite something. And, and when, when a show like Carol Burnett did a spoof on the Waltons, and when Mad Magazine did, oh, a segment called the Walnuts. And when we were on the cover of, of, um, you know, the magazine like with like a Norman Rockwell type Thanksgiving portrait. And so those, those moments or being part, yeah. Thinking in terms of being part of television history is very humbling. And it's, you know, it, it's tremendous. We did a, we did a q and a session at the Smithsonian, um, with the Walton cast, and I think they had, I think the radio might have been in the Smithsonian at some point. I don't know if it still is, but, you know, it's just like, I mean, I go about my daily life and I live a pretty normal life. And then something suddenly it'll be like, wow, I'm in a lunchbox <laugh>, or that show just made a reference to the Waltons in regards to something. I'm like, wow, that's pretty cool.

Louise Palanker (43:27):

You know, <laugh>, that must happen constantly because I, I mean, e just the awareness of how often somebody will say goodnight, Jim Bob or Mary Ellen. They, you know, they tend to say the names that have two John, boy, Jim Bob and Mary Ellen, you know, before they're gonna remember Aaron or Ben, they're gonna say your name probably. So you, you must hear it constantly.

Judy Norton (43:47):

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I remember one time, uh, during one of the space missions and, and there was the, there was a headline, um, in the newspaper. This was back when we had physical newspapers more. And it said, you know, astronauts say Goodnight Walton style, you know, <laugh>. I mean, this was like, you know, come on <laugh>. You know, it's like, how cool is that? When, when, I mean, I don't, I don't necessarily think that everybody's seen the show, but it, it is a part of culture and people are usually familiar with at least some aspect, even if it's like, oh, well, you know, have you heard pop culture references too? Goodnight, John, boy, goodnight Mary Ellen and stuff. And typically, even if people haven't seen the show, they're familiar with that

Louise Palanker (44:34):

And they, they sure are. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman (44:36):

You're, you're a big supporter of human rights.

Judy Norton (44:39):

Yeah.

Fritz Coleman (44:40):

Talk about that in your life, how important that is in your life.

Judy Norton (44:43):

Well, I mean, we're all, we're all people, you know, and I think everybody has, has the right to, you know, live their life under these various different human rights that exist. You know, there there is a literally a, a proclamation that lists out people's human rights. And, you know, it's just, when you look around the world at places where people are not being treated that way, I mean, and that's something that we mentioned, the Waltons, that, you know, they always treated people with respect and dignity and, and gave him the benefit of the doubt and did their best to, even if somebody like the boy from the C c C, even if he wasn't initially someone they totally trusted, they still tried to help him. And ultimately they did. And so many people crossed through. And I think that, you know, that the more we treat each other with humanity, it, it, it kind of, you know, change starts with us. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, it's easy to kind of go think of a mob or a group, but that's a group of individuals. And if each individual takes it upon themselves to try to be a better person and to, to pe teach, treat other people better, and to try and understand somebody

Louise Palanker (45:58):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Judy Norton (46:00):

Then, you know, we can make a huge difference in the world. So I do, you know, like I I, I do what I can to support organizations that are, you know, doing good work and, uh, yeah. I mean,

Louise Palanker (46:13):

I mean, you must get asked often to take part in this cause or that cause and then do you, you know, get to handpick what it is that you're going to invest your time into, you know? So what are, what are some of the causes that matter most to you?

Judy Norton (46:26):

Um, well I've been, I've been working most recently, um, doing some handouts. Like, um, my husband and I were actually just out over the weekend in, in, in a local community handing out booklets from the, um, drug-Free World Foundation and, and just, uh, that, you know, enlightened people about the truth about drugs and their effects and, and whatnot. And, and so, you know, I think drugs are still a huge problem in our country and around the world. So trying to, I think education makes a huge difference. Um, so that one is, is important to me. I've also been, um, doing work to help support the actors fund. Hmm. Um, you know, because so many of my fellow actors and people in the entertainment industry and, and behind the scenes in front of the scenes on stage, you know, have been really struggling and out of work for so long when everything's shut down.

(47:19):

Uh, so, uh, I've done some things for, um, there's, um, a, a a couple of gentlemen in New York who've been doing, you know, these daily for a year. They did daily, um, podcasts, you know, zoom things to raise funds for the actors fund. And so the Waltons did a couple of those. Um, I'm part of, uh, a group. There's a, there's a website called cameo.com Yeah. Where you can, yeah, you can sign on and you can anybody who, any celebrity or personality that's registered, you can for a fee, get them to send you, you know, you, they shoot a video and it gets sent to you mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you tell 'em what you wanna say. So I have been, Richard Thomas had approached me. He said, do you wanna do this? I've been asked to do it. And so I looked into it and it was during Covid and I went, well, I'm not all that interested in doing it, but I will do it and I will donate the money. So all the money that I have made from doing those videos I've donated to various different charities. And a lot of it's gone to the Actors Fund and, you know, and, and various other human rights organizations. So can

Louise Palanker (48:23):

You talk for a moment about your early childhood and the talent that you exhibited that, that compelled your parents to move you in the direction of becoming a prof, a professional performer?

Judy Norton (48:33):

Um, <laugh>. Well, my mom had been an acrobat growing up in England. She grew up in England during, during the war, and she and her brother did this hand-to-hand balancing this acrobatic act. Uh, my grandfather had been a gymnast. Uh, he had qualified for the Olympics on, on rings. Uh, and so from the time my mother and her brother were little, he taught them this acrobatic act. So she loved the entertainment industry. She grew up during the war watching these movies from Hollywood and was like, I want to go. Not that she wanted to act, but she was just enamored of Hollywood. So she, um, she and my father ended up moving to LA just before I was born. She started singing professionally and they got me and my brother and sister like doing little musical theater classes, whatnot. And we did some little recitals when I was little, and I just, I just always loved it.

(49:31):

So I was fortunate enough to get some opportunities. I did children's theater and then I started auditioning for roles. And, you know, I think with children, it's much harder to teach children how to as performers mm-hmm. <affirmative> than, than it is that they have some natural ability that you can nurture and, and help grow. So, uh, yeah, I mean, I think it takes a certain personality, <laugh> and character to be willing to get up and do all that and, and put your emotions on the line. And it was just something that was always enjoyable for me. So, uh, I wanted to pursue it and my parents fortunately gave me the opportunity and supported me in, you know, getting me an agent and taking me to auditions and, and all of that so that I could do what I loved. Mm-hmm.

Louise Palanker (50:23):

<affirmative>. Yeah. What are you working on right

Judy Norton (50:25):

Now? Um, I am in finishing up post-production on a short film that during Covid, um, I'm part of a writer's group and we wanted to do something we could shoot during Covid. So I wrote this little piece, it's, you know, it's called Space Limbo. A group of travelers each in their own little space pods going to different destinations for one reason or another, you know, they wanna change their life. And so it's a series of their, each of their personalities and what's going on with them and, you know, their, whatever quirks or personality traits or things they're running away from. So it's, it's it's little slice of life of their diaries as they travel through space. Um, so that's a little short film I shot with, um, with members of the group and we're editing it now. And so I'm gonna throw it out to some film festivals when it's done. Uh, also doing some writing. Uh, I have a couple of scripts that are with, um, a new, um, production company and that's looking to, you know, find homes for them, get 'em, get 'em produced, and then I'm, you know, doing my YouTube channel and that Awesome <laugh> that takes a fair bit of time, as you know, from, from doing your podcast. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (51:36):

I'm really

Judy Norton (51:37):

Impressed

Louise Palanker (51:38):

With the, the production value on your YouTube channel and, and how you go about getting all of those scenes from the Waltons and freezing the frames and, you know, that sounds, it's, that's

Judy Norton (51:48):

My editor man, you know. Wow. <laugh>. He's that. It's actually my son does all my editing, but that's what he does. Oh, that's what he, yeah. So I, um, you know, early on I was doing it myself and I went, uh, this is like too much for me to try and do any everything cuz I'm not good enough at editing. And so at one point when I was talking to him, I said, Hey, could I hire you to do this for me? And he went, yeah, yeah, I'll do that for you. So he's been actually, you know, getting to see a lot of, at least parts of the show as well, which he, you know, he's never really sat and watched the whole series or anything <laugh>. Um, and it's giving me a chance to revisit the show uh, cuz I haven't watched most of these episodes in, you know, 30, 40 years.

Louise Palanker (52:28):

And what, and same. And you know, same for me. And so what's interesting is that you, when you rewatch something after you've had more life experience and you've had, uh, your frame of reference shifts cuz the experiences that you've had have, have, uh, accumulated and then you look at it again and you're, I don't know, you're kind of in awe in a different way than when you were watching it at 14. You kind of see it with more appreciation, I guess, for all of the values. And so all the layers and all of the interwoven characters and storylines and what's tugging at everybody. Kind of like, it brings it into like a sharper focus, I think. Have you found the same?

Judy Norton (53:06):

Definitely. You know, because I'm further removed from, which is good and bad, I'm further removed from remembering the filming of it. Hmm. Um, sometimes I wish I remembered more of the filming because then I could share more behind the scenes. Uh, but things will, you know, things I was like, oh yeah, I remember shooting that. But it's nice. I look at it, I don't remember shooting this at all, but I know from looking at it, uh, you know, I can see the sets, I can see I how the lights were. I mean, I know how all of that worked, uh, from doing it. Uh, but then I can just really get, get caught up in the stories and the relationships and watching the scenes that I wasn't even there for. And watching the relationship between the characters and how beautifully those were created. You know, watching Michael Leonard and Ralph wait, do scenes together is just like brilliant.

(53:55):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, uh, so, you know, I love all of that. And again, yes, because of now being an adult and having gone through life because these stories are timeless. You know, they were set in the forties, but things that happened, it's like, okay, yeah, you change the, change the clothes, change the hair, but it's the same mm-hmm. <affirmative>, same basic things we're dealing with. Right. Still. And so it, it is, I'm just, I'm really, really enjoying and appreciating it so much for how good it really was and how special it was that we got to do this. Yeah. Um, you know, it's like I really noticed, like after I had my son, you know, cuz I played a parent a number of times before I ever had a child of my own. And, you know, I had my best sort of, okay, I think it would be like this. And I've seen parents, I've been a child, but then when I started playing a parent after having actually had a child, right? It was like, I was like, oh, I didn't have any idea, you know, how deep those, those um, feelings and, and that protectiveness and all of that, how deep all of that goes, right. As, as an actual parent. So that was, I found a tremendous thing in terms of my acting to have that extra layer of reality.

Louise Palanker (55:10):

Wow. Yeah.

Judy Norton (55:12):

Much easier to be a parent on tv. You get everything right

Louise Palanker (55:15):

And the kid goes home with other people.

Judy Norton (55:17):

Absolutely. <laugh>

Louise Palanker (55:20):

<laugh>. All right. Well, is there anything, I know you have, uh, judy norton.com and you have your YouTube channel, and we're gonna put all those links in our show notes and we're gonna let people know where to find you. But is there anything else people would, should know about where to find you on social media, et cetera?

Judy Norton (55:34):

Um, yeah, I, you know, I predominantly, you know, Facebook, Twitter, you know, I'm, I'm on Instagram. I don't get, I don't have a lot of time to get on any of them. Mm-hmm. So, because the YouTube channel, you know, probably if I have to carve out time, I will carve it out for that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So if people do have questions, they should, they should put 'em in the comments of the YouTube channel because that's where I'm most likely to see it. Um, and you know, sometimes I have people leaving me messages on other social media and then, you know, their feelings are hurt when I don't get back to 'em. And it's like, I, you know, I'm so sorry. I just literally do not have that many hours. No,

Louise Palanker (56:07):

You have a life that's, she has a YouTube channel that's a full-time channel. Right. I understand. We're gonna tell people how to find our show and then we're gonna Great. Read our credits and, and thank you. And we really appreciate your spending this time with us. Judy, thank you so much, person,

Judy Norton (56:23):

Been lovely. And thank you for your insightful questions and for your appreciation for the show that that means a lot.

Fritz Coleman (56:31):

Well, listen, if you enjoyed this episode of Media Path, it would help us to be more discoverable by potential new listeners. If you leave us a quick review on Apple Podcasts and if you're new here and this is your first time with us, check out our back catalog. There's binge worthy stuff on there. Gary Puckett and The Cows Sills in Keith Morrison and Henry Winkler, Mark Summers and the Livingston Brothers from my three sons. All kinds of stuff. We thank you so much for spending an hour with us and we would be overjoyed if you took a moment to share your thoughts with us or recommend us to a friend.

Louise Palanker (57:01):

We would love for you to join us online on Instagram and Twitter where we are at Media Path Pod and on Facebook where we are. Media Path Podcast. You can find full episodes with all kinds of bonus visual content on our YouTube channel Media Path podcast. We would love to know what media you have been enjoying, so you can contact us at our social media or email us at media path podcast gmail.com. We want to thank our wonderful guest, Judy Norton. Our team includes Dina Friedman, Francesco Dam Demanda, John Maddox, Sharon Beo, bill Fiac, Thomas Hubble, Mason Brown, and you. Our theme music is by me and John Maddox. I am Louise Lanker here with Fritz Coleman and we will see you along the media path.

(57:46):

Now

(57:47):

Don't hang up just yet cause we're gonna stand in front of the television and take our picture with.