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Episode 63

Reality TV Blogging & Promoting Inclusivity featuring Andy Dehnart & Cameshia Reviews

Episode  63
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Big Brother cast members made history this summer as The Cookout alliance insured that a black player will win the game for the first time in the show’s 21 year run. We are talking about the significance, the fan reaction and reality TV’s reflection of societal energy with Reality Blurred’s Andy Dehnart and reality show YouTuber and podcaster Cameshia Reviews. Plus Fritz and Weezy are recommending Ken Burns’ Muhammad Ali doc, Prime’s doc series LulaRich and NBC’s podcast, Southlake.


Louise Palanker (00:00:05):

Greetings. I'm Luis Palanker.

Fritz Coleman (00:00:06):

And I'm Fritz Coleman.

Louise Palanker (00:00:07):

We are Media Path Podcast, and we've noticed that our country is very divided right now. We are fractured between two opposing points of view. People who like reality TV and people who hate it. I tend to be a moderate. I hate the shows where Fancy Ladies, you're not

Fritz Coleman (00:00:23):


Louise Palanker (00:00:23):

Here. Let me explain my point of view or my, my reality ideology. I hate the shows where Fancy ladies bicker over, who showed up late to a party. And I love the social experiments, which can reveal so much about human nature, like Survivor, the Bachelor, and Big Brothers. So the contest shows where you have to use strategy and also your only social connections are the people you're competing against. I find that very fascinating. So we'll be talking Big Brother and Lula Rich with reality, blurred host and creator, Andy Dehnartner and Reality tv, YouTuber and podcaster Kamisha reviews. But first, Fritz, what have you been enjoying this week?

Fritz Coleman (00:01:00):

Okay, well, I, I, I'm gonna recommend this to everybody, but if, if you are say, a boomer or a pre boomer, uh, or an anti boomer, no, that would be a pre boomer. Uh, this is probably gonna mean more to you, but it's the Muhammad Ali series on P b s. It's four two hour episodes. It's Ken Burns, but really, I think his daughter, Sarah and her husband David McMahon, are the ones responsible for this. But Ken just has, he's the, he's the hood ornament on the whole thing, and it's his amazing work. This is a deep dive into the life of one of the best known figures in the 20th century. Cassius Clay, who became Muhammad Ali as he joined the Nation of Islam. Later on in his career. He was the consummate showman. And what was really interesting, I always wondered how he was so able to manipulate the press and everything.


And you finally learned, he studied professional wrestler, gorgeous George. Gorgeous George in the forties and fifties was this famous professional rester, really the guy that put it on the map and how George prd and Preed and made himself bigger than life. And when he entered the ring, people booed, but in truth, you knew they loved him. And the secret was that Ali had the speed, the grace, and the power to back up as Braggadocia, and it just made for a great entertainment package. There are four episodes round one called The Greatest 1942 to 1964, round two called, what's My name? He resented it. What his opponents would not stop calling him Cassius Clay and would, uh, not call him Muhammad Ali. And he made many of them pay a nasty price in the ring for this disrespect. Round three is on tonight at eight o'clock.


Then they re-broadcast it at 10. It's called the Rivalry. It's 1970 through 1974. Talks about his most intense rivalry with Joe Fraser, and then the fourth one called Round four, the spell remains. This is 1974 through 2016. He has this miraculous comeback against George Foreman, and then he goes on to become the most famous person on the planet. This is a story of a great man becoming himself. In other words, after Ali becomes the world champion, he wants to set himself free. He wants to worship the way he wants to worship, he wants to be called the name he chooses. He said Cassius Clay was a slave name. He doesn't want to act the way the world expects him to act as a black man or as a man, period. He wants to be free. And it's, it's a wonderful story In his classic way, Ken Burns the best documentary ever.

Louise Palanker (00:03:44):

Oh, yeah. He, he, he's a, he's a poet. And it, I think that in Muhammad Ali Ali, a lot of people saw themselves. So when they saw him just going for it and, and being himself, it kind of inspired Yeah. You know, he was of of the age. Yeah. You know, that was just,

Fritz Coleman (00:04:00):

And they have all the cosell interactions, which are really funny. They both knew their part in this, this, uh, dramedy that was going on. It was

Louise Palanker (00:04:09):

Really cool. Oh, that, yeah, you're right. Like a comedy team. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, all right, so I've been listening to the South Lake Podcast. South Lake, Texas seems to have it all. Stately homes, deep civic pride, and above all terrific schools. So when a video surfaced in 2018 showing South Lake High School stuDehnartts chanting the N-word, and when black resiDehnartts came forward to share stories of racist harassment and bullying, the school board vowed to make changes. But the unveiling of the Cultural Competence Action Plan set off a backlash. The consumed South Lake, fueled by a national crusade against critical race theory, even though people really had no idea what that actually was hosted by N b NBC News, national Reporter, Mike Hickson, Baugh and n NBC News corresponDehnartt Antonio Hilton Southlake tells a story of how one idyllic city became the test case for a new right wing political strategy with national repercussions.


It seems that the folks on the right are very good at tapping on exposed nerves and inciting outrage. Those nerves tend to be connected to muscles resistant to and terrified of change, or even an equity alignment, somewhat mysteriously racist. Hate being called racist. So much of racism in America is snide and subtle and arrogantly racist believe that preserving this tradition is their white privilege, calling them on. It threatens their view of themselves as good people. The problem is that children are not subtle. They go to school and overtly are repeating what their parents have said in the privacy of a home. The root problem with racist kids is, of course, they're racist parents. Thus, the violent pushback to what should be welcomed, lessons in community decency. So this is just my view, Fritz, people being people and racist being racist, it may be a better approach to facilitate learning through discovery, empathy, and Epiphany Institute curriculum that cannot possibly be labeled critical race theory.


There are programs such as Challenge Day, which was depicted in the MTV show called If You Really Knew Me, which are designed to break down stereotypes and unite stuDehnartts through the discovery of human experiences. So, cruelty in schools is about more than racism. There's all kinds of ways that kids will, uh, align themselves against other kids, or that kids will pick somebody with a big nose, or who's disabled or who's l LGBTQ or whatever. There's all kinds of ways that kids are horrible to each other. And the Challenge Day model, and I'm not sure if it's these programs still exists, cuz this MTV show is fairly old, but if you can watch it, I, I have links to it here. It's absolutely the most moving piece of work that I've ever seen, because it takes, the groups are kind of like, they put kids together in, in groups where you'll have a jock and a nerd, a kid from every pod of the high school, and they have to sit together and say, if you really knew me, you'd know. And with this dialogue, they begin to reveal pieces of themselves like, my father berates me constantly, or, you know, my mother died when I was seven. Or they say something vulnerable and that inspires other people to say something vulnerable. And from that day forward, they don't walk down the hallways and see each other the same ways. It's easy to just ostracize someone that you don't know.

Fritz Coleman (00:07:16):

The problem is you have to have both willing parties come to the table to make that work. And, and this podcast, which has blown up apparently as I'm reading the M N B C website, is just another symptom of the chasm. It's the, it's the anti-vax, it's the vaccine hesitancy, it's everything. It's this big Grand Canyon that we're communicating across in this country now. But why

Louise Palanker (00:07:38):

Are people so resistant to opening up their heart and their mind to make adjustments? It, it's as if you're fear, you're threatening their very existence fear

Fritz Coleman (00:07:49):

That, that that's, that's why Donald Trump was the presiDehnartt for four years. It's people afraid that they're old. What they feel is the basic American, uh, uh, structure, uh, the basic American life is going away and they're freaked out about it. This predominantly white, um, um, uh, middle class society is all going away. And it's not the way they remembered America or wanted it ever to be. And that's what it is. It's fear.

Louise Palanker (00:08:19):

Well, there has to be ways that we can bridge it and make things less terrifying for people. No, because there really isn't anything to be afraid of. You know, you can, on, you can only enrich your life by knowing more people and knowing more about more people. So that's my take on. All right. So we're gonna pl we're gonna please welcome Andy Dehnart, who hosts and runs the Reality Blurred website on which he writes about himself. I'm Andy Dehnartner, a writer who obsessively and critically covers reality tv, focusing on how it's made and what it means. I created reality blurred 20 years ago as a place to collect interesting links. I review and recommend reality shows, documentaries and nonfiction entertainment, analyze news reports from behind the scenes and interview people who create and star on reality TV shows. You'll also find here other people's insightful takes on reality tv. I believe pop culture can both entertain and affect us. And so our goal at Reality blurred is to amplify the best and hold the worst accountable. In other words, I'm here to call it out when it sucks and celebrate it when it's amazing. Let's talk about it together. So, Andy, tell us first of all, how you put your website together. Did it begin as a MySpace page, or how has it evolved into what you have today?

Andy Dehnart (00:09:25):

Yeah, no, it was, uh, just, uh, 20 years ago. So 2000, uh, it was, I created it on actually, uh, in the, the very early days of, of blogging. And I had been playing around with H T M L and coding and other stuff for a while. So it was something I was at least familiar with. It was a little more difficult back then to publish a, a website. Um, but yeah, and I essentially created as a place to, to share and talk, um, about what was interesting to me that I was watching. Um, and actually recapped the season of the Real World a year earlier, um, as a freelance gig, and then got fired from that, uh, because my new editor and I didn't get along very well. And so, uh, I created reality blurred as a result of, of that just not having an outlet to, to talk about this stuff. And, and it's, it's really evolved since then. As, as the description you des you read, um, El Alludes to, but, uh, yeah, so now I do much more in-depth stuff, like in, yeah, I think my very first post was a sentence or two, um, and I just published a 17,000 word, uh, piece about the Amazing Race season one, um, and how it was produced behind the scenes. So <laugh>, it's very, it's very different than it was in those early days.

Louise Palanker (00:10:32):

Wow. That's, that's really exciting how you turn something negative into a positive. You said, all right, fine, I'm gonna use this to inspire me. You wanna add and created your, your vision of what you know, this content could be and could, could look like. And now you're your own boss. Your, your site is very slick. It's very smooth. It maneuvers really beautifully, and it's, uh, it's fun to scroll through and then your writing is outstanding. It's excellent. So fill us in what is going on this season on Big Brother, because I just find it entirely inspiring.

Andy Dehnart (00:11:01):

Yeah. Um, well, I think I, I, it's definitely been a really great season of Big Brother, and I think the best way to talk about the fact that it's been a good season is to talk about, um, how terrible the show has been for most of its life. Um, just two years ago, uh, big Brother, um, had one black woman on the cast, uh, who a producer asked to talk and act in a more stereotypical manner during her interviews because she wasn't acting, you know, quote unquote black enough, whatever that means, uh, or whatever that meant to that producer. Um, and back then, I, I asked c b s executives about it and tried to get them to hold themselves accountable for the show's racism and bigotry and sexism and homophobia that had been on the air for years and years and streaming live to the internet on the live feeds.


And they, you know, just kind of dismissed it as being one bad Apple producer. Um, which of course is what always happens when systems protect themselves. Um, and, and I I share all this, like we could, we could talk for hours about how awful Big Brother has been in the past. But, um, last year, c b s made a, a change for the better, which was, they said that their reality TV show casts had to at least be half, um, bipo people, um, and not, uh, just the majority White, which is what they had been in the past and majority White casts, um, on both Survivor and Big Brother especially, um, had historically, um, iDehnarttified or at least like, uh, targeted in the game. Um, people who were minorities in the house. So, um, black women, for example, would go home early on Survivor. Um, and that sort of started increasing over time and people were ostracized in other ways.


And, um, so by increasing the diversity of the cast, number one, you just make a better show. Uh, and so the show has been better because it's had a cast that is not all the same. Um, and two, it's made possible, uh, an alliance of contestants this season who's, um, basically just decided to work together. And as a result of that, and what they did has never been done on Big Brother, which is an Alliance of Six people, made it to the Final Six. Like this is a show that, um, you know, a game that basically, uh, thrives on chaos and, and people turning on each other and stabbing each other in the back and all those kinds of things. And this group stuck together, um, and they are all, um, black people, and that means that for the first time in its history, big Brother will have a black winner. Um, which is remarkable that that hasn't happened already, but I think also speaks to some of the systemic issues, um, that we were just talking about a moment ago,

Fritz Coleman (00:13:38):

Wheezy for the Unschooled Big Brother viewer, or the first time Big Brother viewer we're, we need a glossary of terms here. How does this game work?

Louise Palanker (00:13:46):

So it starts out with 16 or so people that move into a sound stage that's built to look like a house. They're being photographed constantly 24 7. The rules of the game are that as the summer proceeds, they vote each other out. So the way that that happens is, like in Survivor, you know, they can vote someone off the island. Well, in Big Brother they have all these competitions. One of them is called Head of Household hoh. The head of household can nominate two people on the block. And then on eviction night, one of those two people is going home. So by the end of the summer, you're down to two people. And all of the people that have been voted out, or at least half of the people that have been voted out, they comprise the jury and the jury votes for one of the two remaining people to win the game.


It works the same on on Survivor, but in Big Brother you're put up on the block, two people are put up on the block by the head of household. And, uh, an alliance is like a block of people that would never vote out a certain person. So if one of their Alliance members is on the block, they would never vote out that person. The Cook, the alliances called the Cookout. And I guess it began on day one or day two people walking into the house and deciding to work together, even though they were kind of like put on teams to sort of avoid those bro clicks that, you know, voted out everybody that wasn't, you know, part of the popular table or whatever. It seemed to, it seemed to align along sort of high school kind of stereotypical lines because they, CBS thought that they had to have, like, you know, hot people in the sun working out and laying by pools.


And maybe Big Brother is popular in the South. I have no idea what, you know, who their target audience is or you know, what they, how they feel about how things have transpired this season. But it just seems to me that like when a white person walks into a traditionally white environment and sees someone they don't know, they see a stranger. And when a black person walks into a traditionally white environment and sees another black person, they see a friend. So to me it, it makes perfect sense that they said, Hey, let's do this. And I remember a couple seasons ago, there were a couple of black women on the show that, that tried to work together, but, you know, after a while they just couldn't hold it together. I f I can't remember their names. I'm not good at remembering the names of reality show contestants cuz they're too many. But Kamisha how do you feel about the cookout and what they've achieved this summer?

Cameshia Reviews  (00:15:49):

Okay. To be frank, the cookout in the beginning for myself, people of color was a celebration. But I'm also a big competitor and I've watched Big Brother for years, even though I have not been happy with, um, not the no inclusion or anything like that, but when the cookout first, you know, started out, it was, uh, a really a good thing. But I started seeing cracks, you know, within the cookout and I kind of knew where it was going and it put me in a negative state watching the cookout. And I, I've gotten a lot of negative feedback because of it, because yes, I'm going to celebrate the cookout because they are people of color and it's the first time all these things. But I feel like that women, cause I'm a black woman first, I'm, I'm, I'm black. Yes. But I'm a black woman too.


So I get frustrated cause I knew I predicted this, I said something's gonna happen next year because of all the dragging that happened to last season, the way Bay and Daveon were treated with the Christmas and all that crap. And so I knew this season something's gonna happen. You have Canada, who has the first person of color, c b s was like, we gotta, we gotta do something, man. You know, they were gone a little bit longer this time for that reason. They had to clean up, clean it up. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So when there was six of them in there, and as you stated earlier, when we see each other, it is automatic thing like, okay, we're boom, we're together. It really is like that. Um, but I knew even with all this greatness that's happening, I said, oh woman, whether that woman is black or white, I said, it won't happen.


It's going to always be a man. Black men are a white man. So, and I know that we haven't got to the very last show. I'm just saying it's because I predicted this last year. I said something's gonna happen because of our controversy. But I I, what I wanted, what I wanted to see is a, a black woman win. Because when Davon played last season, I love Davon, but she wasn't a winner. What I mean by that, she was a winning competitions. If you, regardless of what you say, if you go into something like this, you have to win competitions in order to be able to be empowerment decision and all these things. And she wasn't like, you know, that Babe was kind of more of that. And she, I felt like Bay got sabotage. Bay League got sabotaged a lot, uh, and be relevant.


But in this season, Tiffany I felt like kind of took their role where she was like, okay, I'm gonna be all these different things. I'm gonna be one to be strategic smart all thing. Davon was also be a mixture of Bailey rocking with competitions as well. And when she won a second h o h and when Xavier and, uh, Kylen are more Xavier than anything, started just really going crazy and so upset and angry because she wanted two H Hohs. And I'm like, this is like the first thing ever. It's great to have six people of color for the first time be in the house. This is a, these are things that celebrate. It's wonderful, but why not keep going? You have a black woman. And it

Louise Palanker (00:18:42):

Felt like, you know what their goal was is to get, you know, six B black people to the end, which they successfully resisted. Yes. They resisted their instinct to, you'll blow up the coalition earlier in the game because of the social pressure that exists in the world right now for black people to represent. But when it got down to the final six, the whole patriarchy thing was still very firmly in place. And the women, and then on a double eviction night, the two women and Tiffany, who's probably gonna win America's favorite player. She is, I think she is. And, and then maybe even have a career beyond this because she's just so engaging. Yes. But, um, let me get your, your take on that. Uh, Andy.

Andy Dehnart (00:19:17):

Oh, I, I just think, I mean, Tiffany, we need to give her credit for the, she's the person who created this alliance and from the beginning and decided this. And also it was just a fascinating alliance because they all, all the six people in the Alliance partnered with other people in the house to use essentially as pawns should they end up, um, targeted together. And it was just a brilliant strategy that no one caught onto the entire time. And Tiffany as the mastermind, I think that makes her a target for sure. Um, and it's always interesting when an alliance succeeds and that's rare in reality tv back to season one of Survivor, we had that final forward and to watch what happens when they turn on each other. Right. I think I, I agree with Kamisha. Just there's some sadness associated here with the fact that the person who made this happen whose idea was, is now not going to win the $750,000 prize. And, um, you know, she will definitely go down your reality TV history for that contribution. And then, and that can't change. But it's too bad that the, um, yes. You know, that the, the six players had turned on her as they did. Yes. I guess they saw her as a threat.

Louise Palanker (00:20:22):

Could you each talk about negative reaction on the internet or in the world regarding people forming on the Alliance based around the culture and race? It's, to me, it seems Tori Amin, other people call are using words like reverse racism and things of that nature. Like what are your thoughts

Cameshia Reviews  (00:20:39):

Please? Well, I'm just gonna say briefly that, um, I got accused of that as well. People, I got a lot, they I to turn a video comments on YouTube, and one of the videos where I actually title it is the Cookout races. It really became a storm for me on YouTube where people literally said they're racist. But when I literally broke down and brought up all the other alliances, even though it wasn't a race driven whatever, but their actions showed otherwise with the Alliance last year when Cody and all them, you know, blindsided got, everybody knocked everybody down, including Nicole, the very end when the Davon and Bailey had the opportunity, I can't remember which, um, which h it was, they immediately took them out first before anyone else. And I always looked at it like, okay, well you could have picked anybody, but you picked up two black women in the house to make sure they wouldn't get your age.


I don't know, I just feel like the negativity that they're saying that Cookout is racist to me is crazy because it's a, a history, it hasn't been done before. Why is that looked at as a racist? Because they want to make history because they hasn't been done before you. I feel like that, uh, uh, you know, the white groups, I'm not saying it was just a white driven thing, but they were white, all of them. Yeah. And they demolished everybody. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they was, uh, a different race or something was different about 'em. Uh, like people said, the pretty people, the popular people, the cheerleader and the jock mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they were the ones that won. Yep. I mean Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, Andy. Yeah,

Andy Dehnart (00:22:04):

No, I, I I think it's, um, you know, big Brother has had a ton of explicit and implicit racism over its history. And this group of fans that's being particularly vocal right now about, you know, screaming Reverse racism, which of course doesn't actually exist, um, or is just mad about this success of this group of black players. I, I think it's just transparently racist on their behalf and for them to not have noticed or cared in the past when there was literally explicit racism and for them to now freak out when six Black people work together and succeed. Um, and like that is literally, you know, if you, if you've watched the show in the bi in My feeds, and I will be the first to admit, I have not watched every second of footage. But what I have seen in what I've read from people who have watched every moment is that this alliance did not get together and decide to target white people. Yet somehow white people, and especially white big Brother fans or a group of them, um, feel somehow threatened by this, that when, you know, a group of black players succeeded that somehow an attack on them instead of just incredible success on the behalf of an alliance. And that's really disappointing. But, you know, big Brother basically has a group of racist fans, and if you look on social media, uh, on any official c v s post, you'll see them in the comments. And, um, it's pretty disgusting.

Cameshia Reviews  (00:23:24):

Very. Yeah. Nobody said anything at all about Jessica and anything that happened to them in those in the house. And, you know, when all that that happened and in the house with David, nobody said anything about how blatantly it was racist, just the things that happened. But this season is such a targeted situation. It's, for me, it is very, very frustrating. I had to leave my commentation with Big Brother because I was constantly being attacked. And not that I can, I can handle it, but it's just, it's irritating. Why am I being attacked for celebrating people of color in their house when it hasn't happened before? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you keep giving me this soul same thing where it's like, oh, Tamar won. Okay. You know, that's insulting. Yes. Tamar. And I'm, as a fan of Big Brother, let's Be Funny or anything. Celebrity Brother is not equal to the regular baby brother. Okay. So I'm saying that Tamar, so saying that Tamar won that, and I'm constantly hearing that, it's completely disgusting. That's, I'm, I was happy she won, but it's almost like she won. So are you good now?

Louise Palanker (00:24:19):

It's, yeah. And that's not how the world works or should work. Go ahead, Fred.

Fritz Coleman (00:24:22):

I I just wanted to know what kind of a relationship you have with the shows Big Brother and others. I mean, you're, you're spinning the plates for them, you're keeping, uh, the conversation alive about that shows. Do they support the fact that you're supporting them or are they cautious about how they treat you because you know the good and the bad shows up on your site?

Andy Dehnart (00:24:43):

Yeah, no, um, I, I think for me, um, I'm, you know, I'm a a journalist and a critic and I'm, uh, indepenDehnartt in terms of what I choose to cover. Um, I don't ask for access from c b s, but I also probably wouldn't get it if I did ask. Um, and, you know, I'll, I'll give you an example. I covered Survivor, uh, on location a few times. And then sudDehnart the, uh, just as a journalist, I paid my own way all the way to the, a few, uh, shooting locations. And then c b s wasn't really happy with what I was writing and, you know, stopped inviting me. And that's certainly their prerogative. Um, I don't, you know, I think in, in an ideal world, networks are, would prefer that we didn't, uh, offer this kind of criticism. And you, may you make a good point that there is a degree to which the criticism does sort of continue to fuel interest in the show and, um, or in, in any reality TV

Fritz Coleman (00:25:33):

Show. Well, I'm not talking about the criticism, I'm just talking about the conversation. Cuz here we are talking about these things that are in the past.

Andy Dehnart (00:25:38):

Okay. Go <inaudible>.

Cameshia Reviews  (00:25:40):

Oh, I'm so sorry. I was just gonna say that as far as CBS BS is concerned, um, they most of the time have certain bloggers, um, what does YouTube or whatever to, um, you know, promote or do interviews or most of the time they just use, um, oh, vet alums from Big Brother. Cuz I have been trying to contact c b s and a PR because I, um, would love to interview. This is, this is historical for me as a blogger and I've covered Big Brother for years to be able to, um, interview, um, the cookout. Um, I haven't gotten any response or anything, but the question as far as starting the conversations, um, it sparked a lot on my channel. Um, I've gotten like hate and positivity, I will say that. And, and I'm, I'm in chats. I'm sorry, I'm in comments having full-blown conversations or debates, so to speak, because they either didn't agree what I said or they did. And so I'm, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting and it's, uh, I like the dialogue. I'm not gonna lie. It'll be interesting time. It gets to be a little much

Louise Palanker (00:26:35):

Sometimes. Yeah, no, for sure. It'll be interesting to, to see what happens when the season is over and when all of the members of the cookout are out of the house and talking to the press. Hopefully you'll get a chance to talk to them. But like, are they gonna be, are they gonna be receiving love or hate online when they once again walk amongst us? <laugh>, I just hope it doesn't, that people aren't fearful that from this moment forward, whenever you walk into the Big Brother house, you're gonna be forming alliances based on, you know, skin tone and things of that nature. I, I hope it's a positive thing moving forward and not something that, you know, creates a backlash

Cameshia Reviews  (00:27:09):

That's frustrating. Why would I even be, why would I even be to me? Because it's like, and I even someone, someone of, uh, a person of color I was talking to about this, it was like, you know, this won't even happen again. And I said myself, I don't think it ever will. Um, I think it might maybe put one or two, maybe three in the house, but it would never be six. That's just my opinion. But why would that even be an issue, um, if that was to go on, whether, if it was Hispanics who did whatever, why would they even be a problem if that was to happen? Because I got Black Flash saying I don't bring up Hispanics or different races. I just say this what it is. People, if you're on an alliance, whether there's been a Women's alliance, which I constantly fight for and, and, and argue about mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there has never been a, a woman's alliance that lasted longer than the first two weeks that actually succeeded got the women to the end. That's what I'm looking for. I know I'm black and I says all the time, I'm a woman. I've never seen that unity and it be brother the house over all 22 years.


Actually, I wanna see.

Louise Palanker (00:28:04):

Yeah. And it's step, that's a whole other conversation because it's difficult. I, I feel like it's difficult for a female alliance to stick together because women are so easily influenced by men. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> cute men. And it's, it's really hard to keep your, you know, emotions out of it when you're living with these people 24 7. And you know, it, I, I'm kind of, um, proud of Aja this this season because even though she's admitted that she does have a, a crush on Xavier, she still put 'em up on the block. You know, I mean, she's still doing what she needs to do as a player in the game.

Cameshia Reviews  (00:28:34):

Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. I have to disagree. Aza did that because she really kind of didn't have a choice. Aza should have and I, Colin should have got rid of Xavier and should have kept Tiffany. Yeah. O had a crush on Xavier this entire time. And, and her, she's played an emotional game. The fact that the fact that they kept behind Big D and, and Oza, I'm sorry, I love them, I love them to death. But the people who actually carried the cookout along with Kylin, Hannah and Tiffany, you send them out. I, it's very frustrating for me to talk about it because I, no, I feel like Oza MBD should have been already gone.

Louise Palanker (00:29:08):

Aza when it comes down to end game, people tend to keep around week players when it comes down to end game, which they are in. You keep around Derek f which Ps is the son of, uh, Joe Frazier, uh, Fritz. Oh, is that true? Wow. He's very engaging fellow, but he hasn't done anything except be fun to be around. X is the alpha male who's running the household. People don't even realize they're being run by him. They're all being run by him. That's Xavier, uh, Kylin is kind of a wannabe alpha male, but he's winning a lot of competition. So it keeps him in control. And Aza, I feel like Aza and Derek f haven't done a ton, but it makes sense to me game-wise that Tiffany and Hannah, two smart people, even though they're women and I wanted them to stay at that point in the game that they would go because people are afraid to vote out, Xavier,

Cameshia Reviews  (00:29:54):

You wanna go against the one that you don't know if you're gonna behind. And they did nothing. So I feel like Big D, at least nothing else, cause Big D kind of kept everybody together and he did the little funny whatever, but Oza played in such the emotional games, literally slept all time, wanted to protect Britney at all costs and, and didn't win anything. And, and had crush on Xavier and was mad because he like Alicia, I just,

Louise Palanker (00:30:19):


Cameshia Reviews  (00:30:20):

She should have gone off. You're

Louise Palanker (00:30:21):

Done. I guess I'm just <laugh> Andy, what are you hearing from production or from people behind the scenes because we wanna inside look at, at these shows cuz they, we find them so captivating. So by being a reporter on the set, what have you learned that you can share with us?

Andy Dehnart (00:30:35):

So I, I have not been onset or, or even honestly, to be in, in contact with anyone who's associated with this season. Um, just, that's just, so I've been watching it in the same way that we all have. I can say, you know, years ago, um, I toured the house along with other members of the Television Critics Association and we went behind the scenes and I will just say that like that it's, it's a house that's built in half a sound stage mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it is extremely small and claustrophobic and just we walk through while they were in the backyard playing in a challenge and I can't imagine living in there, uh, with, you know, 15 other people Wow. For three months. Yeah. Um, and I, so he gave me some empathy for the contestants. And, and I think one of the things we're talking about too is, is both what these contestants are gonna face in the real world, which, um, happens to reality TV contestants on all shows, and whether they're playing a game or just living their lives.


Like there's a lot of reaction that people give because they're convinced that what they see on television is the unedited raw, unvarnished truth. And the interesting thing about Big Brother in the thing that makes it, I think something that I continue to pay attention to, even though it's been such a disaster over the years, is that there are the live feeds. And so you get to watch in the house, for the most part, they, the producers are pretty heavy handed with the sensor button sometimes, uh, and cutting off our access to if something's happening. Um, but it still gives you a sense of like what raw footage looks like. And then comparing that to the edited broadcast and what gets left out, how conversations are sort of conDehnartsed and edited. And, and of course they are like, and we all know this, that what we're seeing is not, you know, a a raw transcript of life, but there is something very powerful about television images and it convinces people who watch that what they see is a hundred percent reality. And that is just not the case even on Big Brother, which gives us the closest look to a real-time production that we could possibly have.

Louise Palanker (00:32:29):

And you were talking on your website about how there have been people edited out of scenes who have said racist things and if you were watching the feeds, you would know that that's, that they were there saying those things, right?

Andy Dehnart (00:32:41):

Yeah, they, they've, there were, um, you know, several fights that I can remember where people, um, racist Yeah, exactly. Would say, um, would say racist things would use slurs, would, um, attack other people. And then the edited version of the fight would get rid of those slurs. And CBS's Excuse was like, well, we're not gonna give airtime to that. But now it's sudDehnartly sanitizes them and makes them look wonderful to the, you know, and the majority of people are not watching on the internet. The majority of people are not following along the live feeds on Twitter or, um, Instagram or whatever they, or, or people talking about it. I mean, um, the majority of people are just tuning into the c b s broadcast and they're getting a really sanitized version. And if, you know, big Brothers willing to use CG and literally edit people out of scenes, uh, who knows what other, you know, like the, they're clearly not concerned about reflecting reality as it is. Um, which is, which is rather disappointing.

Louise Palanker (00:33:35):

Was there a change in leadership when they cast, when they made that announcement about how we're gonna be casting more people of color on Survivor on what is it Love Island, or what are all the shows that, and even The Bachelor, which is on ABC, seems to have like more and more representation have, is this something they, they, they feel that just public pressure to do? Or is this something that they consciously want to do? Yes. Or have have learned as much more interesting to watch? They really,

Cameshia Reviews  (00:33:59):

They really had no other choice, especially with The Bachelor. And I know that when they changed, um, the one that did the casting, um, big Brother things changed. Um, the Bachelor, when everything, what happened with the host and all the things that he said, they made changes. Um, cause that was the first when Matt, Matt season mm-hmm. <affirmative> and so many things happened that season. The behind the scenes was we really gotta change because of how we're looking. Because if you go to like, um, I, sometime I followed the Bachelor franchise on Clubhouse, there was a cultural brewering that's saying that people from the past people of color were treated a certain type of way. I'm pretty sure, you know, the bachelors are called out the clubhouse, but they, they get winning of these things. They had people that watched these things, the Boxer PR people.


And at the mat season it's so different. We had two Bachelorette for the first time. You know, one is a person, a person of color, one that's not a person of color. And a lot of that happened to, I'm sorry, it came from, so they happened in Matt season. Everything happened the last two seasons. A Big Brother is why we have this season. It's kind of a cluster of the things that, that we weren't happy with. As bloggers as, um, and I meet all races on that in, um, people, fans of the last two seasons. Um, everything happened with Jack that season really put a big brother in a bad light because the way Jack has treated the people in the cast and Jessica, she, she's still, I, I follow her if she follows me. And she still talks about it to this day, how she was called, uh, taco, just all kind of, it was a bad season as far as, and nobody addressed it.


C b s glossed over it and then you have the next season with the whole thing with Christmas, even though it wasn't any slurs said or racist slurs said it was looked at as racist the whole fight with Christmas. Especially when Tyler came to her behind the scenes and was like, look, hey, you know, I want to go home evict myself of evict. So, cuz at the time the whole thing was happening with the summer, with the Black Lives Matter, all that was happening that summer mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So Tyler was like, I want to go home. Mm-hmm. So these two ladies gonna stay or try to win or whatever. And the CRI was like, was no. And then the producers came down. The producers came down and told Tyler, no, they'll leave that too. People of could have looked at, okay, you're stopping him from going home. And he said the reason why it was looked at as a racist thing, all of a sudDehnart the, they, uh, they changed the one who was casting, she all of a sudDehnart did not you anymore.

Louise Palanker (00:36:17):

Oh, okay. So that was a trigger. Go ahead, Tracy.

Andy Dehnart (00:36:20):

And I will, I'll say that, you know, the casting team did change on Big Brother this year, but on all reality shows, and especially CBS b s reality shows, the network has the final say on all casts. So network executives at CBS b s didn't change in the past. That was less Moonves who have literally sit in on finals casting and approve the cast of Survivor and, um, the Amazing Race and Big Brother. Um, so now it's, I I'm not sure exactly which executives or how high up it goes, um, in terms of the entertainment division, but it is always the network that makes those decisions. So it's really important to find good people, um, which those casting producers are responsible for. Um, but ultimately it comes down to network culture. And I think one thing just about that in general is that, and it's really good to change the representation on camera, but what really needs to change on reality TV shows and in Hollywood is representation behind the camera.


Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, a few years ago there was, um, a repeated instances of sexual harassment on Survivor where there was unwanted touching from a male contestant onto multiple women. Oh yeah. And camera operators and producers kept filming that and didn't intervene. And it's just a bunch of white men behind the scenes who didn't do anything and didn't even, didn't even occur to them that this would be a problem. And I think if you have more women, for example, behind the scenes mm-hmm. <affirmative> more people of color behind the scenes, you're gonna have a better, um, product for one because diversity makes for yes. Again, better entertainment, but you're also gonna not, you know, constantly, um, screw up as badly as these shows have done in the past or

Louise Palanker (00:37:52):

Miss like total red flags that somebody more sensitive would catch up on. Go ahead, Frise. Let

Fritz Coleman (00:37:56):

Let me ask you a question about casting. I mean, these things are all about chemistry and so do they start with one person and then cast the rest of the group around them in order for their, I mean they, they, they can't have, this is really simplifying it, but they can't have two people of a similar, you know, as Weezy said, like an alpha male. They have to have, uh, they have to have, uh, secondary players and primary players and and fiery players and docile players. And h i i is is that a conscious decision or do they throw this group in there and see how the chemistry plays out?

Andy Dehnart (00:38:33):

It's, it's definitely conscious you're describing. Um, but also I think that they, you know, they, they literally do put people's faces on tables and then like rearrange them and try to dis you know, discern what combination is gonna make the best, uh, cast, um, for all the C B S shows. The f they bring a final group of people to Los Angeles who spend about a week or 10 days in a hotel and go through just a battery of tests, medical, psychological, but also tons of interviews with producers and ultimately network executives too. And people I've talked to who've been through that process as cast members will talk about sort of seeing other people and you could, they could tell that they're in competition. It's like, oh, you know, there's another, you know, nerdy gay guy. Uh, I'm, I'm like, that's, it's gonna be one of us.


It's not gonna be both of us. Um, and it's rare sometimes both of them might end up on a show, but that is, that is rare. Um, but it's interesting that even in that environment where they're picking the final cast, they don't allow the cast members to talk to each other. Yes. Um, and so there's this like, they certainly can communicate in non-verbal ways and maybe start forming impressions of each other, but they're not chemistry testing them against each other. It's sort of the sense that the producers, the casting team and then of course the network executives, um, have for what will make the best group. And sometimes they're right and sometimes they're very wrong.

Cameshia Reviews  (00:39:51):


Louise Palanker (00:39:52):

<laugh>, do people sign, do people sign NDAs and do, and when they come off the show, can they, can they talk about whatever they wanna talk about? Or have they signed a non-disclosure and they really can't say everything that all went on?

Cameshia Reviews  (00:40:03):

Well, I can actually speak for like, um, own network. Like I cover a lot of reality shows over there. And, um, I had some issues with one of the casts, uh, speaking to the pr I've always, um, interviewed the cast and I do know they signed an nda. And most of the time I do not interview the cast until after the reunion because for a network, the reunion is the big shebang and that's when all of the extra stuff is spilled. The things we didn't see or whatever. Not after that. Most cast members and it, depending on the contract, depending on the network, they're able to, you know, go on and speak whatever. Like with c B s, they're a very controlled environment. Like a lot of times you notice the cast, they really only speak to certain places like thinks entertainment tonight, uh, s a or thing, whatever.


And then, um, the alum of Big Brother, um, other networks you'll see them interview with, you know, any, anybody not a Paramount is also mixed in with C Bs. So it's, it's like a big monster. It's, it's hard to penetrate that. I'm trying myself, I'm new on the block, but other networks I might be able to penetrate, like M T V, which I know M T V and C B S are in bed together. Their, their companies are, but I've actually interviewed, um, M T V casts, but it's, that was even hard. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and it was, um, after the show had kind of went off and they've had their reunion and all these things, but even still you're supposed to get approved by, um, the network at the end of the day they can still say, you know, I don't want you interviewing with that blogger or whatever mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it, it's just, it's, it's tricky. It just depends on the network as well. It's gonna say too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's hard.

Andy Dehnart (00:41:31):

Yeah. And um, 10 years ago I actually published the Big Brother cast contract and you can go to Reality Blurred and, and read that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and 36 pages of, of Lethal Leads including just, it says after one year after the broadcast of the show, they're not permitted to do anything, make any kind of appearances or be in media without permission of the network. So, but even after that expires, you know, they might cast members might want to talk to people like us, um, who are covering shows, but at the same time, they also might wanna return for an All-Star season mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so they might sort of still feel that kind of obligation to the network or feel like there's other things that they just can't talk about because they're, they're fearing the, you know, the wrath of the network and, uh, C Bs is particularly bad with that. But, um, check out the contract and just see if it's something you would sign. Of course it might be slightly different now, but um Right,

Cameshia Reviews  (00:42:18):

Right, right. I think it's

Andy Dehnart (00:42:19):

Fundamentally the same. I

Cameshia Reviews  (00:42:20):

Bet you Bachelor's kind of similar with, uh, cause a b ABC is, I think it's kind of similar for what you're saying, C Bs. It's hard to get any bachelor's, uh, on any of you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's the same

Fritz Coleman (00:42:29):

Thing. It'd be fun to find out how many people when the show's over remain friends <laugh> or they stalk one another and it's an ugly situation for the rest of their lives.

Louise Palanker (00:42:39):

I mean, I think they've been through, it's kind of like being siblings that had the same parents, you know, I mean, they've been through something that no one else completely would, would understand, which was their exact season of that show. So I think that probably for the most part they stay in touch. And I know it seems like from the whole Bachelor family that people are all dating each other and trying to arrange to be on the Bachelor Paradise together, even though they act like they're single and they, where they get a lot of like Instagram followers and TikTok followers and stuff like that, where they're turning that into a story point this season where people are being caught on Bathroom Paradise for you're, you're here for all the wrong reasons, which is like that, that definitely is a cliche, but it's actually kind of true. Like they're calling people out for like, you guys were arranging to be here together. You already dating, you're supposed to come here completely single. So yeah, it's not, does

Fritz Coleman (00:43:30):

That ever happen on Big Brothers Ever? Any Sex on Big Brother where you go to the remote camera in the laundry room and two people are doing it on a dryer or

Cameshia Reviews  (00:43:37):

Something? <laugh> the old school bird. The old school bee brother. Ooh Lord. It was a, because see back then it was so cool because they had the pop channel where I would've, I would, I was such a big brother fanatic. I wasn't a blogger then. I would literally record my d v I, I remember cuz Pop would show, it would literally record everything. It was no censoring. Nice. It would literally be like four or five hours. You remember that Andy? Or just hours of the, the live feed and you just watch every little thing and they would get, things would happen. You would catch it because they weren't censoring it. Oh, it was,

Fritz Coleman (00:44:04):

See that's a show right there

Louise Palanker (00:44:05):

To me. Oh no, they're under the covers doing all kinds of, like, there's infrared ca cameras are fired up. It's, they, uh, on tv they look, cut that and give the idea like I think something all went on, but I don't watch a live feed, so I assume that people need to touch themselves at a certain point during the summer, even without, without a partner. You know what I mean?

Andy Dehnart (00:44:26):

Just as a, a funny aside, um, you know, I think, I think people are maybe more conscious now of the fact that they're filmed. Although even, you know, you definitely forget it after a while. Um, so maybe there's less of that than we have seen in the past. Um, but a few years ago I interviewed the, the person who designs big brothers, uh, house, like the, the interior of the sound stage and sort of redecorate it every year. And he was talking about sort of the challenges there of like making sure there's, you can't have a way for people to like spell things out to each other, so they have to actually verbalize them. So there can't be anything to write on or like a game of Scrabble because, or letters on the, on a piece of art. Cuz then people could point at them. Um, but he also said that they had to like redesign, um, a, a storage container that was in the backyard that held pool equipment because, um, the contestants would go into that to masturbate and uh, they had to, they had to basically like change the, the, the structure of the house, um, just to, to provide

Fritz Coleman (00:45:20):

An amazing powers of concentration to pull that off. <laugh>, please, lemme ask you a question. Uh, either of you. Um, uh, now you said masturbating in the pool house and I've completely forgot what I was gonna say.

Andy Dehnart (00:45:32):

<laugh>. Sorry, I throw it, threw it all.

Fritz Coleman (00:45:33):


Louise Palanker (00:45:34):

A distraction.

Fritz Coleman (00:45:35):

Oh, well I'll think of it in a minute. Oh, oh, that's right. Andy, you brought this up when there were, they, they, there are certain ways they have to communicate. Um, that, that I, first of all, I I will say you can't tune this show on On and like she, she insisted that I watched the one last week cuz I I haven't watched it much. You, you're lost. First of all, it took me 15 minutes to figure out what h o h meant, <laugh>.

Louise Palanker (00:46:01):

Oh my

Fritz Coleman (00:46:02):

God. Definitely. And second of all, and I'm, I'm, I'm not a viewer, so maybe I'm a really objective third party. He doesn't

Louise Palanker (00:46:06):

Have Big Brother as a first language.

Fritz Coleman (00:46:08):

No, no. Uh, no. But acting, but I found an irritant to be Andy, that, that when they're whispering, you know, they go in the back room and they do these little confabs, they're whispering and you can't understand what they're saying in the Whisper. But also when they're putting the, the lower third, um, translation on there, I know it's going too fast. You can't read it. So you can't hear it and you can't read it. And I'm thinking, what's the point? And I got frustrated.

Louise Palanker (00:46:33):

You gotta jump in from the beginning. Absolutely. And you gotta understand what, there's a lot of coded language that's built around the game and they, they use there, there's a, a bunch of catchphrases that they use constantly. Um, and

Andy Dehnart (00:46:44):

It is, it's in some ways the reality TV is, is, is is very mature as a genre or genre or at least it's like, uh, you know, it's in its twenties right now. Um, and I think that there's a, a recognition from a lot of networks and producers that they're not trying to draw new people in. They're trying to hold onto their fan bases. Mm-hmm. And, and

Fritz Coleman (00:47:03):


Andy Dehnart (00:47:03):

Get that who can otherwise, you know, flee to go to one of the other million, uh, streaming services or other shows that are out there. Um, so I think what you're describing actually makes it harder for new people to come in, but they're also then speaking the language of fans. And so, you know, I can tune in and I know exactly what's happening, even if I don't even know these players, um, because I've watched the show for 20 years or followed it. So, and

Fritz Coleman (00:47:26):

It's the best example of what an episodic show should. It draws you into the next episode and you have to, you have to keep going with it. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (00:47:33):

Now with something that people can understand are some of the documentaries that you recommend on your site, Andy. And one of the, one of those that I invited Fritz to enjoy this week is called Lulu Rich. Oh, I love that. And it's a bit, it's about, I don't know if you watched this one, Kaisha, but it's about a, I mean, they don't wanna call it a pyramid scheme, but it's like one of those companies where eventually they're just hiring people to hire people. And that's,

Fritz Coleman (00:47:58):

Yeah. They called it mul, multi-level marketing, which is the legal way. But then the, the government of the state of Washington proclaimed it a pyramid scheme, which is illegal, meaning people are selling stuff, but there are no products exchanging hands or something like that.

Louise Palanker (00:48:14):

Well, after a while, I mean, they, they, once they, they get the, uh, enough layers involved, they, they're seeing where the revenue is coming in. It's coming in from more people at the bottom purchasing the clothing. Cuz if you go down, down, down, and everyone kind of like a, looks like a family tree in the opposite direction where there's more and more grandkids. You these people at the very, very bottom who are just ecstatic. Like it's treated like a club that it's hard to get into. And once you, once they get in, they're more than happy to spend $5,000 on clothes, which they may or may not be able to sell. But after a while, you're just getting people to buy more clothing at the bottom. Do I have that right, Andy?

Andy Dehnart (00:48:51):

I think basically, yeah. And it's a structure that's legal on some level because it still exists and it has not ever gone away. And we've had Amway and from Amway to, you know, everything. There's just, there's a ton of these types of things. And, and the room was a big new one that sort of swept through Facebook. But of course, like some people are successful and then not everyone can be that successful. And I think the documentary does an excellent job, um, or a documentary series of showing, um, how people have gotten in into this, but also then like what their experience was versus what the founders say the, the experience should be. And it just keeps like, sort of building this case over time by just putting story after story on the screen of how this actually unfolded versus, you know, here's what we talk about or here's what I said in a deposition.


Here's what I said in a, uh, training call. Like I said, we need to, you know, like one of the trainers talks about like, we need to get away from being a pyramid scheme and then in a, you know, deposition is sort of saying we're not a pyramid scheme. So it's a really effective documentary about Lula Roe. Um, although I would say, as I wrote in my review, if you're interested in multi-level marketing, I can't highly recommend the podcast. The dream more, um, it's first season was about multi-level marketing and its history and the effects that it has and, and the people that it takes advantage of, um, and how it works in our culture. Um, so that's just a great companion piece. Um, but Lula Rich does a good job of, of telling the story of Lula Roe the company.

Fritz Coleman (00:50:18):

Let, let, let me ask you, um, do you think Deanne and Mark, who are the founders of this company, knew that this was gonna end up not being a completely complimentary documentary, or they started out to make an infomercial for LuLaRoe and then women started getting really, really honest about halfway through this thing and I thought, wow, is this the way this was supposed to go?

Andy Dehnart (00:50:42):

It's a good question. Um, I, at the very end of this series, there's a title card that says Mark and Dan didn't, um, respond to a request for a second or didn't, didn't agree to a second interview. So all the footage in the four episodes comes from one interview, but they're also very much, they're willing to answer the questions and they're asked really hard questions. I think during that time, um, at one point, mark even says like, I don't think my lawyer would like me saying this, but here we go. Um, and they, I think they see it as a chance to tell their story. And it feels like, at least to me, that the documentary has included their story. A again, I'm sure there's plenty that was left out just because it has to be compressed for time. But, um, I'm guessing they might have sort of had some, uh, you know, second thoughts after filming was over, or maybe because of circumstances changing legally or otherwise. But, um, I'm glad they agreed to do it. Uh, and, and clearly they, you know, answered the questions and didn't, weren't evasive or anything. So that's, that was surprising. But it's also what makes a good dv.

Louise Palanker (00:51:42):

Yeah. And it's like what they're selling is what they tapped into is people's desire to be a part of something that feels like a family that feels exciting. You know, you can stay at home and raise your kids and still be a business person and still have something of your own fashion is exciting to a lot of women, women who choose to have children. They have them in those 20 years when they would be making the most gains in their career at the, in their thirties and forties. You know, that's when men really kind of make a name for themselves if they're going to thrive in the workplace. And women who choose to have a family, it's really tricky trying to do both to.

Fritz Coleman (00:52:22):

Yep. I think that's exactly the psychology the show taps into exactly what you're saying right there. They feel productive. They don't feel like they've written the rest of their lives off as just a mom, which is the most important thing. But, you know, especially today when, um, you know, women have more equality than they did in the fifties. Like, my father thought it was an embarrassment that my mother wanted to have a job. It's not that anymore. So I think women are, have this little hole in their soul wondering if they could be productive and this gives 'em a chance to do it. I think that's exactly right. We,

Louise Palanker (00:52:52):

Yeah, and there's a portion of your day where you just wanna talk to a grownup and they're, and they're all in this together and they're a sisterhood and they're sharing in this, and it's an adventure and it's exciting. And, you know, and the pe the people that run this company are very good at putting incentives in place where you can measure yourself against each other. It's a gamification of business, just like Big Brother is a game. You know, that's ex exciting for us to watch as the, as the winner emerges. This is a game too, where you can see how well you're doing and, and every month try to do better. Um, and we're all drawn to those types of incentives and those types of challenges. And they really tapped into that and took advantage of people.

Andy Dehnart (00:53:33):

And I think people too just really want community and connection. And they found that, um, through LuLaRoe. We find that through watching reality TV shows and, and talking about them together and, and people on reality TV shows find that community and, and form alliances. And I think maybe that's the kind of through line here is that that's really what people want is, is that sense of connection. And it's interesting that television can both, you know, provide that for us and also offer a window into how it works for other people, whether that's on Big Brother or Lula Rich, as different as those properties are.

Fritz Coleman (00:54:04):

Yeah. And social media is the, is the driving force behind that. You know, um, they, they didn't dwell on this, but there were indications of cult-like behavior in this thing. First of all, uh, mark started to, uh, throw Mormon scripture out at some of these mass meetings that they would have that people began to notice and became a little uncomfortable with. And they started getting people to feel uncomfortable with their physical selves. They were talking women into going down to Mexico to t wanted to get, uh, liposuction and get the gastric bypass surgery because they were trying to get women to fit this model. So it's just, it, it, they didn't dwell on it, but it seemed a little cult to me.

Louise Palanker (00:54:50):

Or like just controlling in, in, in ways that, you know, a dysfunctional relationship would, you know, would be toxic. I don't

Fritz Coleman (00:54:57):

Know if they were worried about their brand or they were just being controlling.

Louise Palanker (00:55:00):

They're trying to be, I think they're trying to Yeah, both. Cuz I know that she would kind of scold people that walking down the hallway not wearing the brand or Yeah. You know, try and control the way people presented themselves to the world. Or when you went online, if you were having fun, you had to put hashtag LuLaRoe thanks to Lula LuLaRoe. Like she had to get credit for act. Absolutely. Yeah. Everything that happened good in your life. Yeah. She had to get credit for it was a little nutty. Yeah. So before we close, I thought maybe, um, CIA, we could talk about the Bachelor in Paradise and how this year they're building storylines around people who are trying to up their brand by going on a reality show. It seems like it's come full circle where they're actually calling people out on the very thing that we knew it was all about in the first place.

Cameshia Reviews  (00:55:44):

Yeah, it was the little strange. Um, it was, it was two couples and the reason why I called out one of them, I was like, I, I never understood why, um, they were so Jain, they were so busy, they got so aggressive with Jainy. And I was like, well, did we forget about what happened? The, the, the first couple with everything that happened with Piper and all that. But the whole gist of it is, you know, they're at home and social media is a, you know, it's way to make money now, especially if you've been on reality tv. It is your brand. It's not like you can go nine to five. I mean you can, but once you leave reality TV show, that is your brand and your bread and butter. And so Piper was talking about it, Brendan, they were talking about saying that, oh, we have new followers and now that we're on here, we're gonna get new, more followers.


So as far as Brendan and Piper, they were dating, you know, before they came to the show. And so it was like, okay, Brendan was just finding a woman that's in the house that doesn't have anybody. Um, and dating her for a little bit just until Piper came. That's exactly what he did. As soon as she came in, it was like they never stopped. They was, you know, most time people come in the house, they take the time to have a conversation. I remember they sat at the table to eat dinner before they gave me a peanut piece of bread. They was over there making out <laugh>. So it's obvious it was, it was very obvious he was waiting for her. And it happened twice. The second time it was, uh, coup where the entire, or half the cast Riley, all of them was like, Hey, you guys are here for free. Remember Joe, uh, uh, got upset and you're here for free, a free vacation and we are trying to find love, get out and all this. I'm like,

Louise Palanker (00:57:14):

Even outta

Cameshia Reviews  (00:57:15):

Town, if the show is not saying anything, if the show is not saying anything. Cause to me I didn't see any, cuz I mean of course it's drama, but um, the one that's hosting the bartender or whatever and have guest celebrity judges, nobody came in and said, Hey, you know, you guys, you know, we're faking it. You guys are outta here. Cause I believe in the older version they would've done that. But because it's drama and it brings people to the show, they just let it go. What

Fritz Coleman (00:57:41):

About the people? What about the people that came having a relationship before they got to the show? Doesn't that misrepresent? Yeah, that's what we're talking about. Violate like the contract.

Cameshia Reviews  (00:57:48):

That's what we're saying. Yeah. But they didn't, the show didn't interrupt it because it brought a lot of drama battle.

Louise Palanker (00:57:53):

They're treating it as a storyline, Fritz. They're saying, yeah, leave it in and let people at home see this as a development and like have their own opinions, which causes people to go online and talk about something. Yeah. But the thing that upset me the most, really about the way Brendan behaved was that, you know, I can't remember the name of the young lady that he was dating and he wanted, he, you have to, you get voted off the island if if you're not there when his girlfriend shows up, he had to latch onto somebody and be with her. Yeah. Until his piper shows up. And meanwhile when Piper shows up, he's like, yes, I'd like, you know, he tells his girlfriend, I'd like to go on a date with Piper, wink wink. Like he's already dating Piper. Yes. But then he sits there and says like, who this girl, who was she gonna date? She wasn't gonna date anybody if she didn't date me. Like, what, what are you talking about? She's beautiful.

Cameshia Reviews  (00:58:38):


Louise Palanker (00:58:39):

And Natasha. Natasha, Jean, you're, you're saying that if she wasn't in love with you for the first four weeks, she wouldn't have dated somebody else. Like, who are you to say that, that that really ticked me off.

Cameshia Reviews  (00:58:49):

It did. It was awful. Awful. It was off of the way he spoke about her. I spoke about her like she wasn't gonna get anybody. And if it wasn't for me, she wouldn't even be on the show. And so when they actually gave her the, the rose and the sudDehnart not to send her home because, and actually Alex, she was going home. Nobody had any romantic anything with her. She hadn't been, cuz she put all her eggs in the, in one

Louise Palanker (00:59:08):

Basket. She put all her eggs in the Brendan basket. Yeah.

Cameshia Reviews  (00:59:10):

So she didn't have any options. So she was going home until he was like, Hey, we're gonna give done the chance and blah, blah, blah. And it was actually a touchy moment, but, um, it was kind of sad. He trashed her pretty bad. I was like, Ooh, it was

Louise Palanker (00:59:23):

Gross. But then they ran them out of town. The whole team, you know, the Joe Brigade says, you be will need to leave the island. Like you're not here for the right reason. So it's been an interesting season of, uh,

Cameshia Reviews  (00:59:32):

Free, free, free vacation. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (00:59:33):

But we vacation, you know, we watch and, uh, Wells can make me a martini. I'll, I'll sip it that. <laugh>, before

Fritz Coleman (00:59:37):

We go, let me ask you one question. How many hours of television do you guys watch a week?

Cameshia Reviews  (00:59:42):

Hmm. Oh my god.

Louise Palanker (00:59:44):


Cameshia Reviews  (00:59:45):

My phone told me recently. I can't remember. I watch a lot of tv. I work overnight. I work 14 hours and my manager overnight. Ooh. And so on my breaking and my lunches, I watch tv. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> when I get out for work, um, if I don't have an interview, I have like four or five shows that I blog about and I upload 'em to my software and then I edit them and I post them. So I'm watching TV constantly. My parents, my parents, my mother and my children constantly come at me like, can I have a conversation? Cause I'm constantly like

Louise Palanker (01:00:12):

This <laugh>, it's your job. Yeah. Wow.

Fritz Coleman (01:00:15):


Louise Palanker (01:00:15):

A long day. What about you Andy? It is. I

Andy Dehnart (01:00:17):

Think, you know, I don't, I don't count. I don't count it. I probably would be scared if I did, but it's probably also less than you would imagine. Um, only because at this stage in reality tv there is so much, it's impossible to watch it all. And so I kind of think of some of the work that I do now as like trying to find the gems, uh, in the new stuff that's coming out. So I'll give new things some attention, um, at as they come out. But after that, like, there's a lot of same old, same old, and so I don't need to watch every H G T V show to know what it is because they're pretty much all the same thing, for example. Um, so I'll, I'll watch the shows that I love, um, and that really do continue to give me joy, whether that's Holy Moly or Survivor, um, or, you know, other, or a new documentary series like Lula Rich that I've checked out and, and given that a shot. But, um, I don't, you know, I think I'd probably watch And, and the other thing too is like, uh, I feel like I watch, uh, a lot of Comfort tv. So I watch a lot of scripted stuff just to get away from the quote unquote work, uh, reality tv. So, and this past year, since it's been a, you know, uh, hell hole, uh, for all of us, um, I've just watched a ton of GolDehnart Girls just to relax and kinda escape.

Fritz Coleman (01:01:25):

That's so on tv

Louise Palanker (01:01:27):

That's soothing. And,

Fritz Coleman (01:01:28):

And what do you guys think about the, uh, the, uh, real Housewives franchise?

Cameshia Reviews  (01:01:33):

Oh, I don't do those. None of them. I've never been a fan. I, I'm Star. I don't

Louise Palanker (01:01:38):

Why? Same.

Cameshia Reviews  (01:01:39):

Never. I have not been. I I'm more of a, I'm, I was like watching Real, real Roll Rules. I wanted to see somebody get in the dirt and, and, and, and, and try to gun the rope and, and

Louise Palanker (01:01:48):


Cameshia Reviews  (01:01:48):

Who's gonna be, who's, who's the power?

Louise Palanker (01:01:50):

Who's going on today?

Cameshia Reviews  (01:01:52):

I don't like you. You're going home. You know, that was my thing. Oh

Louise Palanker (01:01:55):

My gosh, that's so funny. For

Andy Dehnart (01:01:56):

Sure. No, I, I, I shout out to Rob Rules, which I missed and it's coming back some days, uh, which is exciting. Um, but yeah. Uh, real Housewives, like, I don't watch most of the franchises. There's too much of it. Um, I've watched most consistently the New York, um, version and just they've, I've kind of like followed along those storylines. It's basically a soap opera with real people. Um, and

Fritz Coleman (01:02:19):

You're more likely to see a slap fight in the Real Housewives of New York.

Andy Dehnart (01:02:22):

Oh, no, no. Not at all. Actually. That's the, they're just, they're the one New York I've liked because they tend to make a big deal out of nothing. <laugh>. They're a bunch of, you know, rich white women Yeah. Who have nothing better to do, I know. Than to get really mad at each other for tiny, little perceived slight. And somehow I find that entertaining. I guess I'm

Fritz Coleman (01:02:40):

With you. And then I

Andy Dehnart (01:02:41):

Get mad. We'll, we'll give, just, just to give the Housewives franchise, and Bravo has a ton of problems with representation and, uh, the way they've edited stories and everything else. But I'll give them one bit of credit, which is that the Real Housewives shows are one place on TV where you'll see women over the edge of 40. Um, and oh, that's interest multiple women. And I've, that's true. And that's something that is rare. And so, um, they need to do a better job in many ways. But, uh, I think it's, it's, I I think that might be one of the reasons why the Real Housewives kind of gets flack is because people just dismiss shows that are either for or about older women. Um, and that's, I that's too bad.

Louise Palanker (01:03:18):

Hmm. Yeah. I agree. All right. Fritz, tell people where they can find us. And I will

Fritz Coleman (01:03:23):

Do that. If you enjoyed this episode and how could you not of Media Path, it would help us to be more discoverable by potential new viewers. People who haven't heard us yet. If you leave us a quick review on Apple Podcasts, and if you're new here, and this is the first time with us, please check out our back catalog. You may even find us binge worthy. Recent episodes include Gary Puckett, the Cowsills, Keith Morrison, Henry Winkler, bill Medley, Mark Summers, Richard Sturman, the Livingston Brothers from my three sons, Diane Warren, Tony Dow, bill Moey. I mean, the list goes on. We're running outta breath there. I know. Uh, going back to the very beginning, you're gonna hear exciting interviews with lots of people that you love and who have been a part of your life since you were a child. Thank you for spending an hour with us. And we would be overjoyed if you took a moment to share your thoughts with us or recommend us to a friend,

Louise Palanker (01:04:10):

Subscribe and give us a five star review. And we love you for it. We would love for you to join us online on Instagram and Twitter, where we are at Media Path Pod and on Facebook. We are Media Path Podcast. You can find full episodes with all kinds of bonus visual content on our YouTube channel Media Path podcast. We would love to know what media you've been enjoying. You can contact us at our social media or email us at media path podcast We wanna thank our guests, cam Micha reviews and Andy Dehnartner. We're gonna have show notes that tell you how you can find all of their wonderful content. Our team includes Dina Friedman, Francesco Demond, John Maddox, Sharon Beo, Phil Fiac, Thomas Hubble, Mason Brown, and you. Our theme music is by me and John Maddox. I am Louise Planer here with Fritz Coleman, and we'll see you alone. The media path


Is wonderful, even for the unschooled. It was fantastic. Did you I did. I'm, I'm

Fritz Coleman (01:05:05):

Blown away. <laugh> at, at the, at the detail and how you.

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