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Episode 54

50’s Nostalgia and 2020’s Politics featuring Jon Bowzer Bauman

Episode  54
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Jon Bowzer Bauman describes himself as being “Renaissancey” which begins to cover it. His talents range from musical prodigy to social justice advocacy with, of course, some Sha Na Naing along the way. Jon shares how his “Truth in Music” campaign won back performing rights for original members of The Drifters, The Coasters and The Platters and how his Social Security Works PAC is fighting for the rights of Seniors. Plus Fritz and Weezy are recommending The Summer of Soul, The One and Only Dick Gregory, Mr. Jones and Our Woman in Moscow.


Louise Palanker (00:00:05):

Welcome to Media Path. I'm Louise Palaker.

Fritz Coleman (00:00:07):

I'm Fritz Coleman.

Louise Palanker (00:00:08):

And today on the show we've got Juilliard's School of Music, prodigy, greaser and Social Advocate, John Bowser Bowman. Yes. Each of us humans as many things. Fritz Coleman, for example, is a comedian, a weatherman, a playwright, and a media path scout and guide. What have you found for us this week? Fritz

Fritz Coleman (00:00:26):

<laugh>. Oh, man. Well, I have two that are connected because they're part of the black cultural revolution of the sixties, and they were both spectacular documentaries. The first one was called Summer of Soul, or When the Revolution Would Not Be Televised. This is on Hulu. It's directed by Amir Questlove Thompson, who is the leader of the Roots Band and the musical director of The Tonight Show, starring Jimmy Fallon. This is a film called From Footage of the 1969 Harlem Cultural Festival. It was held at Mount Morris Park in Harlem over six consecutive weekends. Now, the odd and sad thing is that it was filmed by a television crow at great expense, but was never sold to a network or a film chain because nobody wanted it. The footage ended up in somebody's basement for 50 years, and then producer Robert Fent found out about it, went to work, acquiring the rights to all this amazing raw footage.


They repurposed it and turned it over to Questlove, who crafted it into a film that won the Grand Jury Prize and the audience prize. At Sundance, we see remastered performances by Stevie Wonder and Mahalia Jackson and Nina Simone in the Fifth Dimension, and Staple Singers, Gladys Knight and the Pips Sly and the Family Stone. I think it's a really important film wheezy because 1969 was considered a pivotal year in black self-awareness, black fashion, black culture. And this film really was talked about as the black Woodstock happening nearly at the same time. The actual Woodstock took place, but it was considered less important because of the racist attitudes of the day. Lots of great interviews. To put it in historical perspective, we learned why Nina Simone was considered such a strong black female voice of the time we see fly, uh, slime. The family stone explode with a combination of funk and rock, which was actually a bridge between white and black culture at that time.


And we see a really touching moment where Marilyn Mcco and Billy Davis Jr. Are brought to near tears watching the old footage of their performance with the fifth Dimension. And this was a very important show for the Fifth Dimension because the black community thought the fifth dimension wasn't black enough in their sound and in their presentation. And they thought that getting invited to this festival was like being invited home. And they were both near tears. It was really a beautiful moment, interesting film for the music and the history. And I have one more along the same lines, but first I have to tell you my que my Quest love story. You have a Quest love story. Yes. I have a quest love, and I'm there for this. So when I was doing the weather, they would invite us to go back to the Jimmy Fallon Show.


Okay. And Jimmy Fallon would do promos with a weatherman from all the various owned and operated TV stations. I'm sure he loved that day, but I gotta tell you something, he was spectacular. He was so cordial, and it was 25 weatherman, and he said the same thing over and over again. And he had a great knack for pretending he was your best friend. He was great. So the, we had to wait for the show to finish being taped. It was a Friday and Questlove came out to, uh, the hall and Quest loves from Philadelphia, where I'm from. Oh, okay. And so I said, uh, quest, I wanna tell you a story. Um, my senior prom, which happened in 1966, was held at the Treadway Inn in Wayne Pennsylvania. And the act that performed at our, uh, senior prom was Lee Andrews in the Hearts. And his father sang with Lee Andrews in the Hearts, and he melted.


He was so excited, and he couldn't have a very long conversation cuz they were in a commercial break in the midst of the Tonight Show. But he was so touched by that and it was really cool. He was actually leans, but he changed his name. Wow, that's great. One of the great harmony groups. And that's, you know, that's the legacy of music. That is a great prom. Yep. It is a great prom. Now, uh, here's another doc. And, and this one is, uh, beyond Astonishing, the one and only Dick Gregory released on the 4th of July on Showtime. It's still up. This is the Life and Times and one of the greatest comedians and social commentators ever to perform. He called himself a comedian and an agitator. It's got great performance footage, interesting commentary by Chris Rock, Kevin Hart, who's an executive producer on the film. Dave Chappelle, Wanda Sykes w Kamal Bell, who's got that great show on cnn.


He's so good. And Harry Belafonte. Ooh. And the, the thought that will pop into your mind as you watch this is, this is maybe the bravest man ever to hold a microphone. And here's an example. Back in the sixties, he got invited to perform at the Playboy Club in Chicago. That was a very prestigious gig at the time. Well, the club had booked the showroom on that particular night to a group of southern white grocery executives. Could have been a disaster for a no holds by a Bard black comedian. And the club managers sensing there might be trouble told Gregory he could cancel and they would give him another night, book 'em on another night for the same amount of money. Gregory says, Nope, it took me too long to get to the Playboy Club. I'm doing it. He went on stage and blew the roof off the place for three hours.


Ooh. He talked to these white people Wow. And made a few converts out of the heat he generated from that performance. He got booked on the Tonight Show. And then he stepped down from standup in the sixties and went on to fight social battles for gender equality, civil rights against the Vietnam War, against Hunger. And he ended up, up, up at, uh, in the final parts of his life fighting against hunger and malnutrition as kind of a wellness guru. But he was fearless. And this is the last thing I'll say. During the peak of the civil rights demonstrations in the South Mississippi and Alabama, Dr. Martin Luther King would recruit Gregory to go into a town a week ahead of Dr. King, do some speaking engagements of colleges and churches, use humor to call attention to whatever issue they were there to highlight. He was like, Dr. King's Muse. And then Dr. King would come in a week later and be the closer. And these were hostile events. So

Louise Palanker (00:06:39):

He was like the audience warmup guy.

Fritz Coleman (00:06:41):

He was the audience warmup guy for all intents and purposes. And I mean, he was arrested a hundred times and got shot in the first LA riots in the sixties. And, uh, just a fearless comedian. And, uh, I, I have so much more. I I've always respected him cuz he's a very prolific, uh, current events joke writer. But I I now I love him even more. It's a great, great documentary. I'm

Louise Palanker (00:07:04):

Gonna watch that one. Fritz, I I did watch Summer Soul, and I have a couple of things to say about it. One mom's mk <laugh>. Oh, yeah. So if you're not in it for any other reason, she's there. And so, uh, the other is that I loved watching the faces of the people. They did a lot of B-roll in when they were filming. So you get to, in its daylight, and they positioned the stage so that the sun was their lamp, you know, their spotlight. And, you know, you can see everybody in that park just really celebrating their music. And it's, it's set against the cultural backdrop of the time, 1969. So they cut back and forth between getting to see live musical performances and then hearing the narrative of what this meant. You know, what this meant to people at that time in, in our history. And it, it's just a beautifully done film. It's so well edited.

Fritz Coleman (00:07:54):

Yeah. And if it was now, it would've been a theatrical release and made zillions of dollars. It's just, it's a tragedy that it ended up the way it did, but I think it's gonna have a great life on show. Oh,

Louise Palanker (00:08:03):

It'll have a great life. Yeah. Yeah. I watched it on Hulu. All right. So I'm gonna cut from that to the Cold War. Are you comfortable with this transition? <laugh>? Okay. I am, because it's gonna happen very quickly. All right. So I watched a film called Mr. Jones during the Depression, as folks went without, and the rich got richer, communism seemed to some like a better idea than capitalism on paper. In reality, it requires a universally shared altruism and does not account for the sociopathic anomalies which exist in any human population. This archetype, commonly known as the Asshole, will weaponize <laugh>, will weaponize the people's idealism and rise of power with a patriotism that encourages folks to pull together and share and report anyone who has too much or says too much denying our basic need to earn through effort while exploiting our instinct towards envy. But during the Depression of the Soviet system appealed to compassionate left-leaning Americans who were disillusioned by capitalism.


While the truth about the ultimate devastation wreaked by Stalin was kept from us, no one got deep into Russia and no one got out. Farmers crops were confiscated as the people's shared product, and all but the privileged, corrupt and complicit starved and froze to death amid this backdrop, Wells journalist Gareth Jones sensed that something foul was unfolding, and he boldly ventured into the Russian countryside to experience and exposed the horrific truth about the extent of the devastation in the Soviet Union in the early 1930s. This is an excellent film, which reveals a little known but hugely important story. Despite Jones' reporting, however, the forties and fifties still found plenty of communist sympathizers in America, and really in democracy throughout the world, and especially throughout Europe. Our woman in Moscow is a novel by Beatrice Williams that is based on the true story of the Cambridge five, A Ring of Cold War air spies who passed intelligence to the Soviets during and after World War ii.


The book tells a story of Iris who falls in love with dashing diplomats, Sasha, and winds up disappearing with him and their children. Was he spying for Russia? Did they defect? Were they eliminated? Iris's twin sister Ruth, is sent in on a rescue mission with a bold, end daring counterintelligence agent in a precarious plot to extract the family from behind the Iron Curtain. This is a fascinating and exciting read, our woman in Moscow by Beatrice Williams. And I just wanna make one, uh, other point about Russia, and let's start by saying the people there have not really had much of a chance. <laugh>, you know, they went from Czarist regime to, you know, a revolution that didn't really work out. And now we where, where we're at. But it's very interesting to me that under Soviet rule, which was by design godless, the Russians, went after America's left flank folks who were not religious, but were altruistic, appealing to the notion that there may be a more fair and just means of governing, which would better serve us all. Then the Iron Curtain falls Democracy is attempted in Russia, but it's precarious Putin, well-trained in Soviet techniques, methods manipulation, intimidation, propaganda and disinformation campaigns, reintroduces religion, a deal breaker in Western conservative circles. And now he goes after America's right flank and is meeting with much greater success. The goal being to dismantle democracies throughout the world.

Fritz Coleman (00:11:25):

I I agree with everything you said. Uh, uh, Putin is he, he's not an idealist. He's a pragmatic person. So he's an evil genius. Yeah. He, he shifted with the times, whatever will prolong his reign of

Louise Palanker (00:11:39):

Power. But there are people in America who think that Democrats are more dangerous than Russians. Yeah. Or than

Fritz Coleman (00:11:46):

Putin. Well, the switch we're seeing right now, the Republican Party used to be the staunch anti-Soviet party. Now they embrace Putin and vilify, you know, as you say, liberal people, Democrats in the United States.

Louise Palanker (00:11:58):

And I think the difference is the religious factor. They weren't gonna get very far without religion. Both with, with religion, as we've known throughout the ages, the opiate of the masses. People follow whatever it is their religious doctrine is. That

Fritz Coleman (00:12:10):

Was Carl Marxer. Somebody

Louise Palanker (00:12:12):

Smart. Somebody smart. So those are my picks. And, uh, I think it's time to introduce our guest, bring them on. Do you have a good feeling about that?

Fritz Coleman (00:12:19):

I have a great feeling about John Bowman.

Louise Palanker (00:12:20):

John Bowman is a multifaceted man. His bio, according to Wikipedia reads, John Bowman is an American singer, best known as a member of the band, Shawn Na and game show host Bowman's Shawn, aah. Character Bowser was a greaser in a muscle shirt. John Bowman's bio, according to Twitter reads, president, social Security Works, p a c, vice Chair DNC Seniors Council 110 Biden Harris events senior issues Expert Columbia, class of 68, legendary greaser, which best defines you, John.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:12:55):

I wrote that myself,

Fritz Coleman (00:12:57):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:12:58):

By Twitter bio. I wrote myself. So that one is totally accurate. <laugh>, they, they all define me equally. I mean, listen, listening to both of you, uh, you know, I can absolutely relate. I, I had a friend, we did this project called Truth and Music, and my friend has passed away now, Robert Nathan, um, who was a legal consultant and, uh, in, in Truth and Music, where we got a law passed in 34 states to get rid of these imposter groups. And I'm sure this is something we'll talk about later. I

Fritz Coleman (00:13:31):

Hope so. Oh yeah. This is really,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:13:32):

I both decided that we were Renaissance

Fritz Coleman (00:13:36):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:13:38):

You know, this is something like Stephen Colbert would say, but we were Renaissance and you were Renaissance <laugh>. So, uh, all, all these, all these things fit me equally.

Fritz Coleman (00:13:47):

Yeah. But talk about that, uh, that piece of legislation that you fought to, to get an actor, cuz it's really important. And then I'll tell you my experience with exactly what you tried to ward off <laugh>.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:13:59):

Okay. So, so I was doing these shows, you know, which I'm still doing called Bowers now, they're called Bowers Rock and Doop Party. They were variously Bowers, ultimate Doop Party Astra. I had Doop show, Bowers Rock and Roll Party, uh, guests on these shows. I had my own group, but still do a Bower and the Sting race post. Uh, but the guests on these shows were various amounts of the original artists of the fifties and the sixties. Many of them were groups, um, you know, the biggest groups of all. But somewhere along the line in the nineties, I began to realize that, that there were so many imposter groups out there pretending to be the drifters or the coasters, or the platters, or the Marvelettes, that the audience, much less the producers couldn't tell one from the other. Now, you know, this was something that I was passionate about my whole life. So I actually knew who the real people were and the names were variously compromised. And it was basically a trademark issue. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But the names were compromised in various ways. Um, there was one gaggle of people in New York who turned us into kind of a cottage industry and had, you know, had had stables of drifters, coasters, platters. Oh, you need some platters tonight? Wow. We got some platters booked in Seattle. But, you know, I'll come up with another group and we'll book them in Miami.

Louise Palanker (00:15:18):

Wow. So they're just fielding a

Fritz Coleman (00:15:20):

Team. Yeah, that's right.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:15:21):

And this was nuts. And in fact, the

Fritz Coleman (00:15:23):

Give 'em different tuxedos and they're the platters on Saturday night mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:15:27):

So like everyone was getting ripped off. Right. Um, you know, the audience thought it was seeing something that at least had some relation to the original group, to the real group, which it wasn't. And in the meantime, the people who were remaining from the real group were generally sitting at home wanting to work Wow. While the other people were stealing their jobs, their money, their applause, which probably hurt the most mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, because these guys, you know, were getting standing ovation. And it was done fairly cleverly for the most part. Where, um, where, you know, okay, there's, let's say there's four people in the drifters know arguments sake, the coasters, uh, there'd be three guys who were like 35, you know,

Fritz Coleman (00:16:10):

Weren't even born my other hits.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:16:13):

Yeah. So the people in the audience are going like, well, I can't be here. Wait, but there's this one guy, there's one guy that was, they hired who was like 72. Sure. Right. So the audience goes like, oh, but he must be the real one. Yeah. And of course, he was like a real 72 year old person, <laugh>, but a real 72 year old person who didn't necessarily have one thing to do with the coasters or the drifters or the platters. How

Fritz Coleman (00:16:42):

Do they not get in copyright trouble doing that if they had no relation to the original group?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:16:46):

So it's really trademark. Okay. Just to, they pick, uh, because in my Renaissance incarnation here, um, I probably could be a trademark lawyer at this point. And I, I found a lot of pro bono trademark lawyers, lawyers to help us with, um, truth and music. So y you know, it's a trademark issue. The names generally weren't protected very well to begin with. As you know, it was a maverick business, you know, a bunch of young kids being largely manipulated by a bunch of older people. Oh. It's like, you don't need that publishing. That doesn't mean anything. Well take care of that for you.

Louise Palanker (00:17:24):

You don't worry about that.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:17:26):

Which is of course where all the money is. Yeah. You know, so, uh, at least if you're a writer, if you're a performer, the mostly the money was nowhere. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, once you were, once your run was done, you were done. And all these people had left at this point in their careers when we're talking about in this endless revival of this wonderful music, which continues to this day because it is the roots music of everything that came after it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so in this endless revival of this wonderful music, uh, the, ultimately what the performers had left was their life performance. And this was what was being stolen from them that we're talking about. Right. So it's really a trademark issue. Um, they didn't have the means to defend themselves. They couldn't figure out how to defend themselves. You know, they had no advocates.


So I took it upon myself at a certain point in the, in the nineties and then really strongly in the two thousands to become that advocate and to use my, you know, Columbia education where probably if I hadn't become a, a performer, you know, a musician, I probably would've become a lawyer. Um, you know, and I sort of figured out how to do this. And we got this law called Truth and Music, or Truth and Musical Advertising, depending on the state passed in 34 states that made it illegal to do that. That allowed the Attorney General's office of a state or a district attorney of, of municipality to intervene when there was a show with a bunch of these phony groups. There was perpetrating fraud on the public and damaging I original artists both at the same time. So we got it past in all the states where it really was happening. And, you know, at some point in my life, if I live long enough, and it just seems like there's a lot to do, but, um, at some point in my life, I'd like to do the other 16 states. But I have to say, they didn't really have the DOA problem that much <laugh>. Cause they were like Montana, you know, South Dakota.

Louise Palanker (00:19:30):

I have a question. John Regard

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:19:32):

Are the ones that didn't have the

Louise Palanker (00:19:33):

Problem. Did you know enough about branding when you, when you began your run with Shawn a na to know that you had to established yourself as a personality because you're, you're a guy who did that, and that turns out to be extraordinarily valuable that, that we don't necessarily need to see the band lineup to know whether you're in it or you're not in it. You're the guy that people are looking for. Good point.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:19:55):

Great question. Um, instinct. You know, I was in my early twenties when this happened, but unlike most of the other guys in Channa, when I came into the group, which was not at the very beginning, you know, it was an outgrowth of a college singing group, uh, that stood around in a semicircle and were blue blazers and gray slacks and sang songs like, oh, I love the Halls of Ivy <laugh>. And we're talking about 1969 that you were talking about <laugh> that same year. Yeah. You know, when nothing could have been more irrelevant.

Louise Palanker (00:20:25):

<laugh> we're not, were not booked at the summer of Soul <laugh>

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:20:28):

And the continuation, nothing could have been more than the continuation of the Columbia University. Kingsman <laugh>. Kingsman was saying, Louie Louie, there was nothing like

Louise Palanker (00:20:38):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:20:39):

So son and I actually grew outta that group, and I knew a lot of the guys from the original group, um, who were faced with a, a difficult choice very early on, which is, am I gonna run around now with this rock and roll band that's being successful, or am I going to do what I intend to do in the first place? So I actually replaced the guy, Alan Cooper, who became the provost, the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York. He was the original bass singer of Left

Fritz Coleman (00:21:06):

Turn. That's really a tire

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:21:08):

Transition. So when I came in, I had kinda an acting background more than the other guys. And it's, it was less of a branding thing than was more of an and, and more of an acting approach to it, where I just decided I'm going to create a real character that is the first look at the greaser of the fifties through the eyes of the seventies. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think arguably that's really

Fritz Coleman (00:21:35):

Perfect what I did. It's quite

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:21:36):

Pretty. Yeah. I, that that's what the Baer character was. Um, you know, Danny Zuko was kind of happening around the same time, just a little bit after. And certainly Theon was quite a bit after mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, so the Basser character, who also in his first incarnation was super greasy <laugh>. He wasn't <laugh>, he wasn't the crusty but vulnerable TV g greaser. He, like, he was like, he was a guy. You know, there was, at the end of Blue Moon, I actually sort of spat at the rhythm guitar <laugh>. Oh really? What Bower would do. And there was a great show, uh, a show that I'll always remember in, in the early seventies sometime where it was us and Aerosmith at Suffolk Towns in, oh

Fritz Coleman (00:22:24):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:22:24):

Boston <laugh>. Where at the end of Blue Moon, when I did my home routine, where I, you know, flex, you know, I sort of rolled, rolled my shoulders and, you know, was about to come out, you know, sing the Low Note of Blue Moon. And these people started pelting me with cans,

Fritz Coleman (00:22:40):

<laugh>. Oh man. That was an odd,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:22:44):

The audience character was like, he was kind a semi villain.

Fritz Coleman (00:22:49):

I just want to do B before we completely forget about the topic of truth and music. Talk about a coast's experience. I had, so when I was doing comedy, I worked in a cabaret in West Lake called The Horn. I don't know if you're familiar with it. It was a 26th in Wilshire. So one weekend I opened for the coasters at the horn, and it was great. And I was hanging around and schmoozing the guys backstage. And for me, this was real heady, showbiz and stuff. Two weeks later, I went to open for the coasters at Pachanga in the Desert. It was a completely different group. I, I could say what happened to guys, what I talked to at the horn. It was, there was not one single person that was in both groups. You had the touring company. This

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:23:33):

Was the whole problem

Fritz Coleman (00:23:34):

Really. It was, it was embarrassing.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:23:38):

Right. It was horrible. This was really horrible. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I, I'm pleased to say that, you know, some of the greatest of them all, uh, bill Pinkney from the, or, or Bass singer of the original Drifters. So this was the guy who sang, uh, white Christmas, you know, the duo version of White Christmas that was in the Home Alone movie. Wow. You know, just so everybody can relate to this, um, you know, the original, there were two incarnations of drifters. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the original Drifters, which was Clyde Mc Fatter was the lead singer, bill Pink. He was a bass singer. Then the later group that had all the big kids, Charlie Thomas, who was still around to this day, king, but still performing to this day, Carl Gardner, the leader of the coasters descending from the, the group, the Robins that had Smokey Joe's Cafe. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, her breed based original bass singer of the platters. All of those people, um, uh, uh, lived to see the truth in music law enacted. Oh. And some of them, you know, most particularly Charlie, you know, who's still performing, really benefited from the clearing of the playing field.

Fritz Coleman (00:24:47):

That's right. That

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:24:48):

Was my question. All of these ridiculous imposter groups. Wow. So I, I'm really proud that we did

Louise Palanker (00:24:55):

That. Yeah. That's so gratifying. Oh yeah,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:24:57):

Definitely. Yeah. It was very gratifying. Um, and, and it was a lot of work, you know, cause I had to run around all over the country on my own dime. We were doing it through the Vocal Group Hall of Fame, but they had no financing Really. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, you know, so I just ran around all over the country on my own dime and testified and dragged various people in. You know, Carl lived in Florida, so we, he went to Tallahassee and testified Charlie lived in Maryland, he went to Annapolis and testified.

Louise Palanker (00:25:23):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:25:24):

Um, you know, but it was very gratifying cause it was so unjust and there was no other way to deal with it.

Louise Palanker (00:25:34):

Now did you grow up listening to these guys?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:25:37):

I did. Yeah. I did. And I love, you know, as you said, I have a, a classical music background. I went to Juilliard when I was 12, you know, to the preparatory division and, you know, was really studying classical fairly seriously. And there's, there's a fun story that goes with that, that I tell in my show. But the, the truncated version of it is, you know, my, my my Jewish mother, um, from Boston originally, but then Brooklyn and Queens. Um, naturally, what was I supposed to do? I was supposed to play at Carnegie Hall. Sure. So in 1973 with Shawn Na, when Carnegie Hall was in financial trouble, you know, and started doing rock concerts, we got invited to play at Carnegie Hall. Wow. So I'm up there on stage, my mother's out there in the audience. I look out there, I look out there during a specific number, and she's the only person standing in the entire audience of Carl while I am up on stage jumping up and down singing Ram Lama ding. And she's going, Jonathan, you made it

Fritz Coleman (00:26:47):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:26:49):

Or whether it was the Minute, or, oh, that's very funny. Carnegie Hall was Carnegie Hall. So, um,

Fritz Coleman (00:26:56):

Everybody's mother would've done that. Oh, that's so cool.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:26:59):

Yeah. So that's, that's the, uh, the digression, you know, in in, in this story.

Fritz Coleman (00:27:07):

Was there any way to quantify how much money was lost by actual original band members in those bands? Uh, because they had to relinquish positions to phony performers? That's, it's not a really important question. I just thought maybe Yeah.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:27:23):

I'd say there's no real way to quantify. Yeah. Uh, it can't be quantified and it's, it, it, it's probably too depressing to try to quantify.

Fritz Coleman (00:27:31):

Yeah, yeah.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:27:32):

You know, I think we're better off not trying to quantify it, we're better off, but my goal was just to fix it.

Fritz Coleman (00:27:40):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:27:40):

And we really kind of did that so that at least at the end of the day, you know, there was these terrible people. I mean, we could spend the entire hour on this. There were these terrible people that not only were, were stealing all their gigs and money, but were aggressive about it. So that Bill Pinckney spent the entire nineties being chased around in lawsuits Oh. By people who were suing him in other, you know, best def, best defense is a good offense. Wow. He had no real means. Right. They would sue him and try to make him defend himself when he was the real guy. And by the way, oh, okay. Another thing that I'm really proud of, because I I've been part of this fight for so long, is that at the end of the day, in the American legal system, right. Which is, you know, not the greatest <laugh> as we know, you know, it often takes way too long. So it took way too long. But at the end of the day, you know, who is the holder of the trademark of the Drifter's name period? Who? Bill Pinky's original Drifters. That is the holder. They won after, um, a gazillion lawsuits. Wow. Um, you know, and the platter is the same way. Herb Reid got the name. Bill Pinkney got the name. Uh, Carl Gardner got the name. So that's, and, and also the Marvel. So

Fritz Coleman (00:29:06):

He benefited from the royalties of the airplay of the songs and all that stuff. He was the guy.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:29:11):

Well, you know, the problem with the royalties and the airplay of the songs to, to be intricate about it is that unless you're a writer, you really don't benefit. Um, you know, now, okay. Satellite radio actually does pay performance royalties. Uh, but for the most part, radio doesn't pay performance royalties. So, and, and of course the, the masters, you know, the actual sale of records, you could forget about it a long time ago. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that was, there was no money to be found for artists. You know, the masters changed hands, changed hands, changed hands. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we used to joke about it in <inaudible>. And, uh, ultimately, you know, we've, we would find our records, we would find our own eight albums in the cutout bins, you know, with the little hole

Louise Palanker (00:29:57):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:29:58):

Through the side. Right. And it, it'd be selling for like $3 50 cents on some label that you completely never heard of. Right. And then, uh, we used to joke in the group, never before released in this order

Louise Palanker (00:30:14):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:30:15):

It would see our same cuts. You know, like, it would be like the same one, one record. It would have a co a picture on the cover that you couldn't recognize. Right. That you never saw before in your life. Or, you know, and, and it would be the record, the recording would be Yak Act. Tell Laura I. Love her teenager Angel Blue Moon. Then there'd be another one with a picture on the cover that you couldn't recognize. That would be Blue Moon YY Act. Tell her be on the same cuts.

Louise Palanker (00:30:42):

Yeah. Um, you've had some pretty cool moments. For example, Springsteen Open for you. You got to perform with John and Yoko. Can you share any like, fascinating stories with us about some of those pinch me moments,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:30:57):

You know, all that stuff?

Louise Palanker (00:30:58):

Well, I, I am a, I I am a reader of Wikipedia, so that's my cheat. That's my cheat sheet.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:31:04):

Well, that's all true. Billy Joel opened for us in, um, I think like 72, maybe some year like that at Queens College, where it was just him and a piano. There was no band.

Louise Palanker (00:31:17):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:31:18):

And he, he, it was really good. Um, Springsteen opened for us a few times in Asbury Park, you know, at the convention center, which we had a habit of selling out. Um, was the one that, the one that I really remember. He opened for us in a couple other places too. But the one I really remember, and I think it was the first one, was Asbury Park <laugh>. And, um, it was one of those things where this, we sort of spilled the punchline by saying who it was. Um, although to any rock fan, this is would be obvious. So I remember we go into the, you know, we're going in for the sound check and, you know, they're finishing, the guys are finishing, you know, putting together the stage. Right. And some guys says like, Hey, you guys are to check out. You're opening act tonight.


He's says, local guys really good. Well, okay, you go in the dressing room and you know, they're putting the cooler, the soft drinks in the cooler, you know, and this girl says, um, Hey, you guys ought to check out your opening act tonight. He's says, local guy, he's really good <laugh>. So, you know, three or four people said that. So I say, ah, you know, and I'll, I'll grease up a little early, they'll stick my head out. I'll see what they're talking about with some local guy. He's really good. So there's some guy with a band, you know, and he is got this African American saxophone player who you could tell from the first couple of notes was really good, you know, was very good. And, you know, they're singing these songs and the first song is like, really good <laugh>

Fritz Coleman (00:32:41):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:32:42):

The second song is like, wow, that's really good, <laugh>. Then the third, by the end of the third song, I was going like, first of all, he's tearing the place apart. Yeah. You know, and then by the end of the third or fourth song I'm going, like, how we gonna be able to follow this?

Fritz Coleman (00:32:59):

Yeah. Wow.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:33:01):

Okay. And I literally said, you know, which I think doesn't, you know, this, this, this was not any, any great form of cognition on my part, but, uh, I remember saying like, something is going to happen with this guy. Sure. Because this is too good. And literally, this was maybe eight months. It, it was Bruce Springsteen and the E Street band playing the Born to Run album.

Louise Palanker (00:33:29):

Okay. Wow.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:33:29):

You know, like six months or something before the album came out. Right.

Louise Palanker (00:33:34):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:33:35):

It was really good. Wow. And we had a lot of experiences like that. You know, Bob Marley opened for us in, I think Lowell and Worcester, Massachusetts on their, his first trip to the States. Wow. Um, they, they were, were, he was really good. Um, and it was very hard to breathe though, in the backstage

Louise Palanker (00:33:56):

<laugh>. I could imagine. Sure.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:33:57):

I mean, you could breathe, but you couldn't perform afterwards.

Fritz Coleman (00:34:02):


Louise Palanker (00:34:02):

Couldn't perform after breathing. Sure. Yeah.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:34:04):

That, that was kinda hard.

Fritz Coleman (00:34:06):

What about your TV show? I remember being on at seven o'clock and it was appointment television. It was so much fun. It was,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:34:12):

It was generally, uh, it was prime access time. Yeah. It was either seven or seven 30, depending on where you were. It was syndicated. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, in the old days before the check what was called the Checkerboard, you remember that? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, the checkerboard was, uh, you know, they had a different show every night of the week before those time slots got taken over, and which made sense by, you know, jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune and, you know, strip shows. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> five nights a week. But, uh,

Fritz Coleman (00:34:40):

Did you guys write your own material for the sketches and stuff?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:34:43):

No, we had real, we had real writers. Mm-hmm.

Louise Palanker (00:34:46):

<affirmative>. Well, some of that stuff is on, on YouTube now. John, I'm gonna read you a comment. This top comment, I want to, oh, yeah. These comments are fun. Uh, somebody named John writes, it's a good thing. I'm alone. No one can see me cry. The flood of emotions and memories that just hit me. Wow. I haven't seen this in over 40 years. I used to watch this with my dad. It was his favorite show. He just loved Bowser and always looked forward to watching it. I can still hear him calling me. Come on, John Chan na is going to start. I love and miss your dad. The years just went so fast.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:35:20):


Fritz Coleman (00:35:20):

Young. You need a couple of those. That's pretty good.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:35:23):

I, I, that's, you know, you know, at the age of 73, um, it, it's actually the most, the nicest thing that can happen. The most gratifying thing that can happen. And these people are generally like right around 45. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there are people in their forties. Yeah. And I do get that. I do get this. That's, that's a particularly lovely one. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I do get this a lot, which is like, oh my God. Oh my God. I was four years old. Uhhuh

Louise Palanker (00:35:51):


Fritz Coleman (00:35:51):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:35:52):

And, and your show was on at seven 30. I was four years old. And my mother said, okay, when Bower goes and says Goodnight and Grease for Peace, he's talking to you,

Fritz Coleman (00:36:08):


Louise Palanker (00:36:08):

You're outta, it's time for eight

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:36:10):

O'clock and you're outta

Fritz Coleman (00:36:11):

Here. You know, all bands Wow. Our product of the time in which they flourish. And yours was just a positive, happy, nostalgic experience. Uh, Weezys got some great observations about that period of time and, uh, why nostalgia was important. Uh, you and we were talking about American graffiti and, uh, happy days. And

Louise Palanker (00:36:37):

Well, I think that, you know, if you look back on the history of recorded music, you know, you have the fifties as being the first time that teenagers had walking around money. So let's say you could get a 78 in the thirties. Nobody was marketing that to a teenager. They barely had enough money for food, let alone for, uh, you know, uh, gram a gram phone or when, yeah. So now fought World War ii, we've, we've secured safety and peace for our children. And now teenagers want their own sense of identity. So all of a sudden there's this like, enormous left turn in music where young people are like super influenced by the music of Black Americans. And the music industry is trying to kind of like, present it to kids in a way that their parents will allow it to come in into the house and people can make money. And all of a sudden there's a lot of money being made. But during the seventies, you're far enough away from it to where it's safe to look back on it fondly without being so close to it that you're thinking, oh, that's corny, or that's not, you know, that's no longer cool. It's like enough of a buffer to where, oh my God, that was amazing. And it's been amazing ever since it's been, it's iconic cuz it was so different than any other form of recorded music up up until that point.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:37:51):

Totally true. Uh, accurate. And you, you know, let's go there for a second. When we're talking about truth and music, right? It is no coincidence that the, the groups that we're talking about being massively ripped off in their later years, were all African Am American groups. Okay. The coasters, the Drifters, the platters. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> The Marvelettes. Right. No coincidence there at all. Um, this was basically black music. Right. That was, um,

Fritz Coleman (00:38:22):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:38:24):

<laugh>. Well, yeah. But, but that also, y y you know, this is one of the things that drove me the craziest about watching this imposter group phenomenon unfold, you know, was that this was music that brought the races together in America in a way that hadn't really happened before. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and certainly not on this mass scale where, you know, there were kids like me in the suburbs in Brooklyn and Queens, you know, that I didn't finish the story before, but I used to, I, I had a transistor radio that my parents bought, bought me. And, you know, I had the little, you know, I, I could, I could flip the dial. It was in New York. I could flip the dial between the four stations and land on each one, the four Rock and Roll Stations, <laugh>. And I kept these copious books that I still had of where I heard which song that I love <laugh>, you know, and I would listen, I would be listening to Yac and trying to practice Chopan at the same time.


Wow. And my mother didn't know it. Uhhuh <laugh>, you know, but I loved this stuff. I mean, this stuff resonated. And I was, I was a little kid, you know, like eight years old, whereas the, the people who were really living it in the fifties were, you know, 16 mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but this made a massive impact on our generation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there was, there had never been anything like this before. And the fact that it brought people together in such a deep way. And, and when you look at, even just look at the, at the, the nature of the songs and where they came from, and the Brill building, you look back at that where you had people like Carol King, you know, writing songs for the Shells mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there was a, there was a melding of cultures. Yeah. You had Jewish, during that time period, Jewish kids unheard of

Louise Palanker (00:40:14):

Before. Jewish kids writing songs for black artists. Right. And, and in a way, you know, everyone's kind of making their way in, in, in the country, you know, carving, carving out a path for themselves that's unique and distinct and accepted and, and then disseminating this across, you know, all the suburbs of all the states of all of America. And everyone's listening and music is, is, is, is rhythm. It's our hearts beating together and we're all tuning into the same station in a certain town. And hearing these same beats in the same moment, it's, you can feel that you're sharing something with the rest of humanity. And it, it's just powerful. It never leaves you,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:40:55):

It never leaves you. And the way I feel, you know, is that everything that's hap that happened subsequent to that, this was a huge part of the foundation of everything that happened subsequent to that and all the stuff that happened in the sixties, which includes, you know, things like the Civil Rights Act, obviously, and the Voting Rights Act that we've now gutted, you know, the, this Supreme Court has not finished cutting. Thank you. No, thank you very much. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, all of that stuff was built on the same cultural foundation that had a lot to do with this music. So what happened subsequently, you know, when, when you saw so much injustice surrounding the people who made the music, the themselves, they were pioneers in so many aspects of American culture.

Fritz Coleman (00:41:47):

Yes, they were. And exactly what you're talking about. You had bands like Smokey Robinson who would go out and have a bifurcated audience with a white rope down the middle of an auditorium with black on one side and white on the other. And Smokey would say, I'm not performing unless you take the rope down and the audience can mix. And so those, as to your point, those those bands in their own little microcosms sort of forwarded civil rights, uh, using that music.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:42:15):

It's what moved it forward the, the entire time. And, and you know, to me, I, I feel like I've fought my whole life for this and we're, we're at a, we're at an interesting moment right now where the cards are really on the table. Yeah. You know, we're, we're in a moment where the cards have never been on the table this much before. Oh, my, they were, in a way, when we were growing up, you know, you still had Little Rock, you know, where, where you literally had had laws standing in the way. Um, now we've done better in that regard, but, uh, as far as the cultural reality of what America is, you have seen a, a real upfront statement of we're white supremacy. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman (00:43:04):


Louise Palanker (00:43:04):

Well, I have a, I have a, I have a question for, for the class. Yeah. We're, we all used to listen to the same radio stations and we used to watch the same three television networks for the most part. Yeah. So we were sort of sharing these experiences and enjoying this music together and feeling the unity of America. But now everyone in the family can go to their separate room and go on their computer or go on their device, and everyone in America can look elsewhere and, and fine tune the entertainment that they're being presented with. Is that part of what's fracturing us or what's making it possible for outside forces to drive wedges in and, and, and try to convince people that we're more different than we're alike? Or is it because our attention is now so dissipated?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:43:54):

If you're asking me, I don't really think so. I don't think that that's that much of a player mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, because let's face it, the, the, in the old days when everybody at the same three TV stations, what they were watching was largely illusion. Okay. Uh, you know, father knows Best was not America. Yeah. Leave it to Beaver was not America, it was a version of America. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but it was a version of America that excluded, you know,

Louise Palanker (00:44:23):

People of

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:44:25):

We're striving to be, is a multiracial democracy, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's what we are striving to be <affirmative> and, and we're still striving to be it. Um, it's three steps forward and two steps back. Um, we've talked a little bit about the role that music plays and I think the mu the role that music plays is substantial. Um, as you know, I'm spending a lot of my time these days in political stuff. I try to get candidates selected. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, you know, I'm a Vice, as you said. I'm a vice-chair of the DNC Seniors Council. I work with older people. Older people vote wrong a lot. They don't vote even in their own best interest a lot of the time.

Fritz Coleman (00:45:04):

I can't wait to talk.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:45:05):

Well, the reason they don't vote in their own best interest appears to be this Culture Awards. Right.

Fritz Coleman (00:45:10):

Stop you, you're a national spokesperson for the National Committee to Preserve Social Security.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:45:15):

Well, not anymore. Now I'm, now I'm No you,

Fritz Coleman (00:45:18):

But that's a passion of yours. That's a passion of yours. Senior living items like Social Security and Medicare, and the frustrating

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:45:25):

The President of Social Security Works pac, which is really the, um, the operative thing and Social Security works. We work closely with National Committee Alliance for Retired Americans. Um, the other two vice chairs of the D NNC Seniors Council are, are, um, president and c e o of of those organizations. Uh,

Fritz Coleman (00:45:46):

But what makes me mad about this, and, and I'm so thankful that you, you put your energy into that. Uh, what frustrates me about the Democratic Party is that, uh, we need to have a base of seniors that are as passionate about things as the Right. We don't have a village's retirement community that has Democrats in it. We have this thing in Florida, which is the juggernaut of over 65 minutes. Oh,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:46:14):

We do. Yeah. You can't, you can't. Tell me about, cause I just organized in the last election, I, I spent large portions of my day in Florida, even though I'm in California. Um, I organized something called the Florida Democratic Seniors Organizing Council, which has 250 of the best activists, influencers, organizers in the entire state of Florida, including the president of the Village's Democratic Club, Chris Stanley. Wow.

Fritz Coleman (00:46:43):

Who is that A small club? Democratic?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:46:46):

No, it's the biggest one in, in the entire state, by the way. 1500 people are in the Villages Democratic Club. Wow. A little bit is of that is, you're right, Fritz, you're not wrong. A little bit of that is self-defense, you know, like,

Fritz Coleman (00:47:00):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:47:01):

We have to huddle together here. We

Louise Palanker (00:47:03):

Need a beachhead

Fritz Coleman (00:47:05):

Beach's. So counterintuitive like what you're passionate about, social Security and Medicare are threatened by this new right. Slant of politics now, but they're the single most important issues to a quality of life for seniors. So, well

Louise Palanker (00:47:18):

Of course, but there's people voting against their interests all over the place. Yeah. Because they've been convinced by some hot button issue that there's something threatening and a threat always seems like the number one priority over, Hey, I could have, you know, my medications paid for. There's like, no, but we're being invaded. You know, that's like House on Fire kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that's being fed to them by their silo, the silo that they're in, where the H Hollywood elite are bad guys who are trying to turn your kids, your boys into girls or whatever that, that they're, they're, they're, they're freaking out about it. It's not actually happening. And I don't know how to convince them that, you know, everything's okay other than having John tell senior citizens, if you're, if what you're advocating for is adopted by the Biden campaign, and I I read your op-ed in the Hill, what do people get? Just like, let's shortcut this. Like what do people get if he adopts your policies that you're recommending?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:48:13):

Well, first of all, his policies in the campaign.

Louise Palanker (00:48:17):

Right, right, right.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:48:17):

Were terrific. If you went to Joe Biden's pay, uh, plan for older Americans, you know, all of it is terrific. The, the real issue is what are we actually going to be able to get past mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So this has like zip to do with Joe Biden, who Yeah. You know, has been a, Joe Biden through his entire career has, has understood quite well where the Center of America of the electorate has moved.

Louise Palanker (00:48:47):

Right. Yeah. He knows where he can tweak the dial and where he needs to leave it for a second. He's,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:48:52):

I think he understands it now too.

Louise Palanker (00:48:54):

Yeah. No, he's had great instincts. His whole, his whole life. Yeah. Right.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:48:57):

The question is, does Joe Manchin understand <laugh>, but let's leave the Republican party out of this for second

Louise Palanker (00:49:03):

<laugh> burn

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:49:05):

All and, and, you know, social security works. I can say absolutely, honestly now for work, working for years on this, that, um, you know, if we, if we ever found a Republican who was running for something who was actually better on senior issues than the Democrat they were running against, we, we would endorse that person. It simply has never happened. This be, you know, going back not very long to Paul Ryan, right? Mm-hmm.

Louise Palanker (00:49:38):

<affirmative> don't have to,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:49:38):

Who benefited from, who grew up on social security survivors benefits? Yes,

Louise Palanker (00:49:44):

He did. Yeah.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:49:45):

Kinds of people who should understand how important this is to families. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and this guy spent this entire career going after Social Security and Medicare. And if you look at this modern version of the Republican party, you'd say, oh, Paul Ryan was pretty good compared to this. I mean, start

Fritz Coleman (00:50:01):

Insurrection. I said that George W. Bush is quaint now compared to what we've been through. Right.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:50:05):

It is not an insurrection in the capitol.

Louise Palanker (00:50:07):

The frog is barbecued <laugh>.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:50:10):

Right. So, so that's where we really are, you know, when we have an open seat, um, which happens pretty often, I mean, I'm not gonna send our questionnaire, our questionnaire is five questions mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, we use support expanding social security. Do you support expanding Medicare? Do you support Medicaid expansion as defined in the Affordable Care Act? Will you fight for lower drug prices? And would you always refer to Social security and Medicare as earned benefits and never refer, use the pejorative term entitlement. Ah, those are the five questions. Nothing, you know, very, very simple. And we're not demanding Medicare for all. We're de we're asking for Medicare expansion, which by the way, we are now on the verge of getting right. Next topic,

Fritz Coleman (00:50:57):

What's the health of Social Security and Medicare right now? What's the health of social security?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:51:01):

Right. Mu much better than you might be led to believe, but I don't wanna get, let, let me finish this other point. Oh, okay. Okay. And I'll get to that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, when, when there's an open seat, you know, if, if somebody has a track record, we're not gonna send them that questionnaire and invite them to lie in a questionnaire <laugh> and say, oh, now yeah, now yeah, sure. I voted this way. Yeah, no, I voted this way before, but now, now I really believe in the expanding social security. No, we're not gonna do that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But if it's an open seat and nobody has a federal track record, we're gonna do that. And I just did it recently in a special election, sent, sent a questionnaire to both sides. We've been doing this for years. Right. Get a questionnaire back from the Democratic candidate that says Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. With explanations 20, you know, 250 words or less. Right. I have never once even gotten the questionnaire back from the Republican. Oh my God. <laugh>. Literally, never once have I gotten the questionnaire back. So they're

Louise Palanker (00:51:58):

Not even turning in their homework.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:52:00):

No. They just trash it. They just Right. They just throw it in the right. So this has become a, a thing which, you know, is kind of hard to understand. If you look at a state like Florida, that's mainly seniors. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, why doesn't Marco Rubio support social security and Medicare and fight for them? You know, why doesn't Rick Scott support social security of Medicare? Hello Rick Scott happen to have been the biggest Medicare fraud, felon history of the United States. Creepy until somebody finally surpassed him. Nightmare. But this is crazy stuff, and you were right. We, it's fought on culture war. This is fought on culture war term. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> as far as the health of the programs themselves. The programs are way more healthy than you might be led to believe. Um, social security, which, you know, most people think is just running out of money tomorrow. The fact is, if nobody lifted a finger and did nothing about Social security when it's supposed, then you, you hear, oh, it's going bankrupt and it's definitely going bankrupt in 2035 or something like that. No. Even if nobody did anything, social security would still pay out 80% of its benefit in 1930, in, in 2034 or 35. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So this is all, you know, hyped up. Yeah. Mythology.

Louise Palanker (00:53:25):

It's all vested. Yeah.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:53:26):

Something we should do. Something like pass, you know, John Larson, who was a pretty moderate congressman from, uh, Connecticut, had a bill called Social Security 2100. That was a very good path, not a, not a, you know, extreme in any way path to, um, keep social security solvent until the year 2100. And in fact, to expand it, so

Louise Palanker (00:53:52):

Explain the Medicare expansion to people that have heard that term, but don't really understand what it means or how it applies to their state.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:53:58):

Okay. And why it's a good term. Well, Medicaid expansion.

Louise Palanker (00:54:01):

Yeah. I, I'm sorry. Yeah,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:54:02):

What you're asking, I wanna talk about Medicare first actually. Okay. Okay. Because, because we are on the, the verge of a big moment in Medicare, um, in Medicare history because, because right now, this next reconciliation package, we hope, and we are fighting for it to contain a big move in Medicare expansion. The one that we would really like to see at this moment is actually lowering the age.

Louise Palanker (00:54:32):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:54:33):

Lowering the age for the, for the, uh, won't get into the intricacies of this, but the most comprehensive, you know, not going all the way to Medicare for all kind of thing we could do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> is probably lowering the age. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> lowering the age to 60, or lowering the age to 55 mm-hmm. <affirmative> people that's in, when you get in between 55 and 65, a lot of people are just struggling to try to get their way to those Medicare benefits when they're

Louise Palanker (00:55:05):

65. Yeah. And they, and they put off exams, they put off procedures, they walk around with hips that are broken and Yeah,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:55:11):

Exactly. And then they're too sick. Yeah. You know, just lowering the age is the thing we favor the most, but if it's not going to be lowering, this negotiation is going on as we speak and, um, you know, it's going to be a negotiation. Probably the Republicans are out of this. This is talk among Democrats. Yeah. Um, as to what we're going to be able to get in a reconciliation package. It may not be lowering the age, it may be dental, vision and hearing. Ah, another bizarre, if, if you were of this age, you would know that, um, since Medicare was passed in 1965, there's never been dental vision and hearing cover.

Louise Palanker (00:55:53):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:55:54):

As if older people, you know, don't need to be able to see here <laugh> or eat <laugh>. Just a very, you know, it's a compromise. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman (00:56:05):

Well, it goes back to Weezys earlier point where the Republicans have been good about using scare tactics, calling Social Security and Medicare socialism, and they throw that word around. And so it scares people away from

Louise Palanker (00:56:18):

The importance. And they, they're good at branding terms like death panels, <laugh>. Yeah. Things that sound horrifying when it's just all mythology.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:56:25):

But by the way, let's, let's not, let's, let's be clear and blunt about something else. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Republicans in the electorate love their social security. Absolutely. They love Obamacare, Medicare, of course. And so do independence. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, in other words, these, these are programs that are truly beloved. They get fed a bunch of lies about what's got to be done to keep the programs intact, and in fact, to make them better. You know, look, I do events all over the place, and because I'm bowser to some extent, you know, I did 110 events in the last election. Most of 'em were Zoom, but in the previous one in 2018, I did events on the ground in 57 campaigns. Oh, wow. From Alaska to South Florida and from northern Maine to Southern California. I, I traveled and did events on the ground. And, you know, we got a lot of people in the audiences of these events who are, who are, um, Republicans, uh, independents, you know, and they're all saying the same stuff as, as the Democrats are saying, which is, how come I didn't get a cola increase <laugh> by cost of living adjustment?

Louise Palanker (00:57:40):

Do they, do they recognize that it has, that it is vaguely, uh, related to how they vote? Do, do they get the disconnect?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:57:50):

Th that's the the hardest problem. Yeah. You're, you're on the money about everything including this. Is that, is that, you know, and it gets couched. Um, part of it is messaging language, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the Republican Party has gone towards, oh, we are the ones who are saving the programs. Don't you see? We're saving the programs because the program's going bankrupt. So we're the ones who are saving it. And to some, some of these people do buy into that,

Louise Palanker (00:58:19):

Right. Or the,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:58:20):

They're actually trying to get rid of the program.

Louise Palanker (00:58:22):

Well, they also, if, if it, if the program doesn't get passed, they blame Democrats for being, for putting stuff in there that had nothing to do with the program. It was just extra stuff that Democrats wanted. And so they, they just have managed to have these talking points that, that, that are like ninja, you know, that, that kind of take whatever the momentum is, and they kind of heav it back onto us. And I think a lot of people fall for this. And how do we change the narrative? How do we correct the narrative when they're so good at this?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:58:55):

Well, you know, I, I deny that they're really that good at it.

Louise Palanker (00:59:00):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:59:02):

Um, we made a lot of inroads in 2018, you know, when we, we are fighting headwinds with older people because to some extent people get, you know, seem to get more conservative as they get older,

Louise Palanker (00:59:14):

Or they just get set in their ways. They get deeper

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:59:16):

Well, they get set in their ways. And honestly, I mean, again, let's be blunt about this. I think a lot of this is, you know, it's like, I hate rap music, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, why do people have to wear baggy pants? You know, kinda thing.

Louise Palanker (00:59:31):

<laugh>, they get distracted. That's

Jon Bowzer Bauman (00:59:32):

More important to me, that voter than, than, you know, I don't really think that social security is going to go away. I don't really think that Medicare is going, you know, they're too, they're not scared that this stuff is going to go away, even though they're voting for people who really are trying to make it go away. And it's only people like us who are stopping it from going away. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that's the reality and that's the disconnect. But in 2018, we pretty much went 50 50 with seniors.

Louise Palanker (01:00:07):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:00:08):

And if we go 50 50 with seniors, we are going to win. Um, you know, for the most part, we have been lose, we have been losing seniors. Um, Biden went much better with seniors nationwide, um, than Hillary did.

Louise Palanker (01:00:25):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:00:25):

Uh, and, and it's important to win seniors, especially in midterm elections. Another thing that should be just said out loud is that in midterm elections, I wish this weren't the case, but seniors make up a bigger portion of the electorate because younger people tend not to show up now. We wish they would show up mm-hmm. <affirmative> because generally they, you know, see the future, which is going to be them, I think a little more clearly than older people who get set in your ways, like you said.

Louise Palanker (01:01:01):

What can all of us do to help you and help all of the candidates in 2022?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:01:09):

Okay. First, the, the most important thing is to get involved in any way that you can mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it depends on where you are more than anything else. It depends on where you are. And I really encourage people to seek out the swing races and the swing districts. If you're lucky enough to be in a, in a swing or battleground district or state in a Senate race, please, you know, contact me, contact us at Social Security Works, but contact the campaigns of the people who are going to do the right thing and try to help them get elected. There are very slim margins, um, in both the House and the Senate. The White House is stable now until 2024, but there are very slim margins in both the House and the Senate. And in order for anything to be accomplished, we're going to have to increase those margins. So the number one thing is to get involved. The ways you can get involved in campaigns are multitudinous and every individual should look at what they think they're good at. Um, but you can call people on the phone, you can talk to people if you don't like talking to people who are, if you don't like talking to voters, and you can knock on doors. Again, if you don't like talking to voters who, who you have to persuade to do things, you can talk to voters who have to persuade to show up

Louise Palanker (01:02:35):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:02:36):

<laugh> who are going to, who are on your side, but may need a little bit of extra push to, to get out there. Yeah. I personally am involved in organizing seniors councils in every battleground state right now. Wow. We've already done Florida and Arizona. We're in the middle of Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. Um, Maine is done, Iowa, uh, you know, every battle grant state that there is, we are in the, in the process of, of Florida is, is is

Louise Palanker (01:03:06):

The biggest. So for the, for the purposes of this conversation right now, before you f finish listening to this show, John, who can people follow on Twitter? Who are some excellent candidates that we've got coming up, uh, for election in 2022 that we can go right now and click and follow them on Twitter?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:03:22):

Okay. So, so my favorite candidate that's an absolute candidate anywhere is Val Demings.

Louise Palanker (01:03:28):

Yeah. <laugh>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. She's awesome.

Fritz Coleman (01:03:31):

Yeah. What are her chances against Marco Rubio? She rides a

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:03:34):

Motorcycle. Good. But it's not an easy race. No. You know, it's not an easy race. And there should be, because Marco Rubio has done absolutely nothing.

Fritz Coleman (01:03:42):

No. He just, he no <laugh>. Right. I dunno.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:03:46):

And, and,

Fritz Coleman (01:03:47):

And he's got a big Cuban following down there, but I couldn't name a program if I had to. No,

Louise Palanker (01:03:52):

She doesn't do anything.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:03:52):

Right. There's been literally nothing. And, and, you know, I think she can make inroads. We're working, working very hard on the Hispanic populations in Florida, and especially in Miami-Dade County. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which went a little bit south, pardon the expression in the last election, um, from, from what had happened in 2016. And I think b, because of her law enforcement background, you know, she was a police chief in Orlando mm-hmm. In a very successful police chief in Orlando. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that actually appeals to the Hispanic community communities in a lot of ways. And I say communities precisely mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because it is not a community. There are many different Hispanic C communities, the Cuban community in Florida alone, Cuban community, the Puerto Rican community, the Venezuelan community, the Columbian community mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, the Caribbean communities. So she is an extraordinary candidate. She's an extraordinary legislator, um,

Fritz Coleman (01:04:53):

Wonderful. During the impeachment trial, really comported herself well during that.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:04:57):

Right. She's one of the, she's one of the best and she's just a wonderful person. Um, so I, I of, of, of the obvious, I love her probably the most mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, one thing about the house races, and I hope you'll have me back. Oh,

Louise Palanker (01:05:10):

Sure. Um,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:05:12):

Because I really would like to come back to talk about this after we see what the districts are.

Louise Palanker (01:05:17):

Okay. When, when are they drawn, John? When exactly? Well,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:05:21):

It, it varies state to state, but a lot of it is gonna be in August. Okay. So it's gonna be pretty quick. One thing I wanna say to everybody out there real fast is that, um, you know, you might get excited about like Marjorie Taylor Green, like she's out of her mind, so why dot we try to get rid of her.

Louise Palanker (01:05:38):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:05:39):


Louise Palanker (01:05:39):

It's such a Republican district and

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:05:41):

You've clearly never been to North Georgia before

Fritz Coleman (01:05:44):

<laugh> ever Oh, my

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:05:45):

Atlanta. But the Atlanta suburbs and, and Tennessee, um, pretty much, she's probably a good representative of the population in the area, and I'll probably hear from, from people who, uh, live there who don't, you know, who, who are on the other side. Right. But they know they're outnumbered. Sure. Um, but look at Lauren Boger.

Fritz Coleman (01:06:07):

Okay. Yeah. She's bad too.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:06:08):

Who is Right. Who is bad too. Yeah. And is, you know, pretty much just as crazy. Right. But represents a district in Western Colorado mm-hmm. <affirmative> that previously had a guy named Scott Tipton.

Louise Palanker (01:06:21):

Oh, yeah. Looked

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:06:22):

Like a garden variety backbench, uh, you know, sort of like a Paul Ryan type of, you know, fiscal Republican of something or another. Sure. But wasn't nuts.

Louise Palanker (01:06:34):

Old school Republican. Um,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:06:36):

Yeah. That's a winnable district. Right. So I really encourage people to not waste their time and resources. And by the way, you can also give money to candidates that always does help, but I encourage people not to waste their time on re and resources on unwinnable races. Right. And I'm happy to be resourced for anybody. Please send me emails. I'll give you my personal email address right now.

Louise Palanker (01:07:00):

Could you come back?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:07:01):

OL com, bw, Z as in ze, e r the

Louise Palanker (01:07:06):

Oh, okay. He just gave out his email. Um, could we have your home address please? <laugh>? We we're leading

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:07:11):

Up a car. Social Security

Louise Palanker (01:07:13):

Works. Listen, could you come back? Could you come back with a candidate? Could you back, could you join us again with a candidate? I,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:07:19):

I, I I absolutely

Louise Palanker (01:07:20):

Can. We would love that.

Fritz Coleman (01:07:22):

Let me ask you one depressing question before you, we wrap this up. Are, are you as depressed as we ought to be about the, uh, state legislatures that are boxing in voting rights on an individual state basis? And what can we do about it congressionally to, to counter this? What, what needs to happen?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:07:45):

So the most important thing we can do, um, is to pass S one, which was HR one. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> before the People Act. And, and not, or, but, and the, uh, John Lewis, John Lewis Voter Rights Act. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. We need both of those. They actually cover different matters. Now we're, we're going to be able to do this. This is not, this is not off the table by any means, and anybody who tells you otherwise is, is lying to you and wrong. Um, if you live in Arizona or West Virginia, call the offices of Joe Manchin and Kristen Sinema mm-hmm. <affirmative> and make sure, and, and if I can take a moment, understand that the situation, there is two different things. There can be a carve out for voting rights for democracy. The thing about 2022 is that democracy is on the ballot. Right. It has never been on the ballot before in this way. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> democracy itself is on the ballot. Um, we're looking at a Republican party right now that seems to favor autocracy and would like to install Donald Trump as President for Life or <laugh> something. Yeah. Yeah. Um, this is petrifying. It's really scary. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right. We need a, a, a national voting rights law, so that to even the playing field, um, and we need to do it now, but we're on the verge of it.


Sine is a co-sponsor of that act of, of the, for the People Act. Okay. So the issue with her is she needs to get with Carve, doing a carve out in the filibuster, so this could be pets, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> a little bit, bit of a different issue. Manchin, um, is not a co-sponsor of the act and objects to some of the things in the act, but there's clearly room with him to, um, to move. And in fact, he has moved. And in fact, he sat out loud and wrote a little paper about, about what he would agree to. Yeah. <laugh> and no less a wonderful human being than Stacey Abrams, who I'm sure you're all familiar with. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> said the next day, it's like, I'm good with that. This stuff is great. Okay, let's just pass that then. So we are not far from being able to address that problem, Bri.


We are close to being able to address that problem, but we got to do it, and we got to do it now. And all these councils that I'm putting together, the seniors councils that are putting together with my partner, Steve Regan Strife, who's vice, who's chair of the, um, DNC Seniors Council, which our vice chair, the purpose of all of these is twofold. One, to elect better people and more people who will be good on these issues. And two, two, when moments like this come around where policy is critical to have an army of people out there who will put, who will be able to call calls are the best, right. Emails are not as good. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, call your representatives, call your, um, and, and tell 'em what you want and tell 'em it's time, it's time to pass the court for the People Act and the John Lewis voting rights. Phil

Louise Palanker (01:11:22):

Is there, is, do you think that, John, do you think there's a strategy surrounding when Biden would come out in favor of abolishing the filibuster? Is he holding back for any strategic reason at the moment?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:11:37):

I, I think there is a strategy behind when he's going to say that. Okay. But, but the strategy has to do with how this unfolds. Look, Joe Biden, you know, who I have a lot of respect for from minute one in his campaign. Um, and I'm, I'm friends with his pollster mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I knew this from the first minute that, that Joe Biden really believes in bipartisanship and really wants to believe in bipartisanship. And he went through eight years of the Obama administration, you know, getting pounded over the head by Mitch McConnell. You know, I'm just gonna extract everything this guy does. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the most important thing we wanna achieve is to make Barack Obama one term present. Sure. You know? Yeah. But Joe Biden still is going to try, and all the polling that was done during this past campaign showed that the American people really want Joe Biden to try. Yeah. So Joe Biden is trying mm-hmm. <affirmative> now we're pretty close to the point where, where Joe Biden has tried so long and it hasn't worked mm-hmm. <affirmative> No. And he, he doesn't have a willing partner. You have to have a willing partner or, or you can't negotiate.

Louise Palanker (01:13:05):

Yeah. It's sort of like marriage therapy where one person just doesn't talk and then you just, like, we need to get a divorce. Mm-hmm.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:13:11):

<affirmative>. Right. Okay. So look at, look at the reconciliation, look at the, um, infrastructure stuff. It's a perfect example where he's already gone down the two paths. Um, they're gonna get what they can with regard to infrastructure in a bipartisan manner, and then there's going to be another bill that's going to be passed by reconciliation. Yep. Now, the sad news for voting rights is you can't do it by reconciliation. No. But you can carve out an issue, you know, Mitch McConnell did it with judges. Right. Where judges are 51. Right.

Louise Palanker (01:13:48):

50. Okay. Okay. Right.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:13:50):

You can, you can carve it out. So voting rights can be carved out. It needs the willingness of mansion and cinema.

Louise Palanker (01:13:56):

Right. The,

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:13:57):

The great big blow up, the filibuster, um, push isn't here yet.

Louise Palanker (01:14:06):

I see. So

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:14:06):

It's a carbon, I think we're on the verge of, I we were on the verge of a carve out for voting rights. Okay. Now, right. Just as we were on the verge in the reconciliation package of Medicare expansion and allowing, I I, I didn't say this during this whole time, and I have to say it, allowing drug, allowing Medicare to negotiate with drug companies Okay. For lower prices, which is going to fund a lot of the expansion of Medicare. This is another of the things that, you know, ne never happened when Medicare was passed. You know, it is only the United States Congress and the President, of course, but not this president that is stopping Medicare from being able to negotiate with drug companies. Right. For lower prices. Right. And every other country does that, but us,

Fritz Coleman (01:15:03):

Every person over 60 would support it. And

Louise Palanker (01:15:05):

That has to do with donors for sure. Right? Mm-hmm.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:15:08):

<affirmative> it, it does. Yeah. And it does. And this is where, you know, as, as, as much as I'm, I've become, you know, kind of increasingly partisan myself in my, in my lifetime, because I feel like the Republican party, which used to be, you know, used to be able to understand it, um, has gone so far off the rails with Trumpism. But this is an area where we have some problems with some Democrats too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, because there are people, you know, Senator Menendez specifically in New Jersey, you know, people who have, people who have a lot of, are, are getting a lot of money from pharmaceutical companies mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, that, you know, we need to call out. Um, we're, we're running a, a billboard, um, in San Diego, uh, in Scott Peter's district. Uh, you know, he's a representative, he's a former mayor, and I did events with him that had to do with, uh, his, his desire to expand Social security and Medicare mm-hmm. <affirmative>


And, and fight for lower drug prices. He signed our questionnaire, but we feel like he's gone back on it somewhat. Got it. So these are areas where, you know, look, getting the money outta politics, which is part of the for, for the people act as well Sure. You know, would be the single most important thing that could be done. Yeah. Best that'd be amazing, is the greatest gift to the American people of all for sure. Because this, this, it, it undermines everything that people try to do. And yes, there are, there are great people, there are great people in Congress, and I know a lot of 'em, you know, and I have a lot of respect for them, for a lot of them intellectually. But everybody is under a lot of pressure to

Louise Palanker (01:16:55):

Raise money.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:16:56):

Yeah. To raise money. Because the amount of money that gets spent, you know, especially since Citizens United, the amount of money that gets spent in campaigns is obscene. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman (01:17:07):

The worst moment in Supreme Court history right there. Sure. Robert. Yeah. Let me ask you a, a let me ask you a big overarching cloudy dark question, <laugh>. Ooh. So I, I mean, we're, we're talking about the minutiae of uh, what's left of American democracy, but what about the authoritarian bent of the whole world right now look into the future and, and tell me, uh, is this, is this gonna get really severe before it gets better? I mean, I, I'll tell you, this is America's first flirtation with real authoritarianism and a real sort of a quasi fascist, uh, framework. And we don't know how to react to it. People don't know where we are with this stuff. Where, where do you think we are? Cuz it's not just America, it's the planet. I mean, five or six European countries are going through the same thing.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:17:58):

I, I admit, I tend to be more positive on these kinds of things by nature. But I also think objectively that we are, we may have seen the worst of this in the past few years because no one produces results. The authoritarian governments do not produce results. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's, it's another reason why we must produce results right now in America. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the Biden administration has got to produce results. We've got to seize this moment and produce results that can be run on in 2022 and 2024. You can already see I asked the Twitter question yesterday, I think, you know, like something like, are you better off now than you were one year ago? Right. <laugh> play on the, and vast majority of people say absolutely <laugh>. Yes. Cause one year ago we were trying to struggle through Donald Trump's authoritarian idiot response. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> to a pandemic mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know. Yep.

Louise Palanker (01:19:03):

I have an actual human in my home who doesn't live here. So that wasn't happening a year ago. <laugh>.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:19:10):

I just think we do better, you know, but we have to prove that democracy works better.

Louise Palanker (01:19:16):

Um, I mean the where, where authoritarian works is you give, bring people to the brink of starving and then you say, put me in charge and I'll, you'll have a sandwich. So you'll have

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:19:26):

A sandwich. Right. <laugh>, I loved your communism. Uh, and, and, and that's how I feel too, you know, what we need is, is responsible capitalism. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which is very hard to get.

Louise Palanker (01:19:37):

Yeah. It's a delicate, delicate balance.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:19:40):

We really need that. We really need corporations to, to step up now and, and be more responsible about the future, including, especially things like climate change. Cause if we don't have a planet, what are we talking about? Job

Louise Palanker (01:19:54):


Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:19:55):

Yeah. I don't really see it your way. I mean, or the way you, you're posing. I, I really feel like look at Bolsonaro. You know, look at, look at Brazil. Yeah. It is a disaster. It's

Louise Palanker (01:20:06):

A mess.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:20:06):

Yeah. Right. It's a mess. It's going to go back. They tried this, it's going to go back. Um,

Louise Palanker (01:20:12):

But they were desperate, which is why they elected him. They were more desperate than we have been Right. In the United States of America.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:20:19):

But I don't see the evidence that autocracy or Despotism is really gaining. Um, you know, the eastern European countries are the toughest to sort of handicap mm-hmm. <affirmative> with regard to this because they had this, it's like we were saying Weezy earlier about, about Russia. Right. You know, they were this way to begin with in a, in a different system. Right. Now they're this way in yet another system

Louise Palanker (01:20:51):

Like, which is less horrible.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:20:54):

Right. They tend towards autocrats. Yeah. What is it in those, in those countries that tend towards autocracy

Louise Palanker (01:21:01):

Because they've never had any hope and nothing has ever been great. So it's like, which system is less horrible? Is what they're choosing.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:21:09):

But somehow it always ends up, and, and you know, it's because we are lucky to have a foundation as flawed as the Constitution is. And it is, we've had to amend it a lot of times. It was not a perfect document. Uh, no one should be three fifths of a person. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there are a million different women should always have been able to vote, you know, pick a thing. Um,

Louise Palanker (01:21:30):

But you get to a point in those countries where they had their last election 15 or 20 years ago. So there's a tipping point of no return. And that's what we have to warn people about because they don't really see what could go wrong. They have a failure of imagination about what, what, what's at risk here.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:21:48):

But our constitution is a good foundation.

Louise Palanker (01:21:50):

Right. Sure is.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:21:52):

It is a good foundation. They actually did for their time these flawed men, and they were all men and they were all white men. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But they did a pretty good job in the sense that they let it be a living. They set an example in the first with the Bill of Rights being the first 10 amendments that okay, you can have an amendments so that it's a living document. Yeah. And, and we are, consequently, we have been able to amend it for our times. We, we gotta keep doing that. Um, you know, I do tend to be a little bit of the cheerleader person to keep people's spirits up. And maybe that's my show business background, cuz I'm used to entertaining people, but I also just believe it's true. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, y you know, when prog, uh, progressive idea gets on the table, it actually never loses. It's never lost in this country. Um, you know, the slaves are free. Women can vote. We have gay marriage, we are going to get gun safety better than we have it now.

Louise Palanker (01:23:04):

Well, progressive thinking has always, progressive thinking has always been on what is termed the right side of history. And I don't know how people don't see that, you know, ahead of the game. Like, how do, how is it so terrifying when it's, you know, a hundred years later always seen as the right side of history?

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:23:23):

It's just a matter of how long it takes. Right. And oftentimes it does take way too long, but it's just a matter of how long it takes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and all of us while we're on this planet should just fight the good fight as hard as we can. I intend to do that until my last breath and then we'll hand it off to the next generation and they will continue the same fight. But it really is, you know, as Dr. King said, the marlar of the universe tends towards justice. And

Louise Palanker (01:23:52):

I, I, I'm optimistic

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:23:54):

Part as it is to see that sometimes

Louise Palanker (01:23:56):

I'm op I tend to be optimistic, uh, like you are John. I don't know about

Fritz Coleman (01:23:59):

Fritzie. I am too. I was just asking somebody who is, um, so knowledgeable about all that we're talking about. And I'm just curious. Yeah. He's deeply I feel better talking to

Louise Palanker (01:24:07):

Him. Yes. I loved it. I hope so.

Fritz Coleman (01:24:09):

I'm glad you're an advocate for us, John.

Louise Palanker (01:24:11):

Yeah. And we wanna help. Fritz and I are here to help

Fritz Coleman (01:24:13):

You. Yeah. We wanna help and, and bring back a candidate or bring back an issue. And it, it's just been a fantastic conversation.

Jon Bowzer Bauman (01:24:21):

I'm more than happy to do that, by the way, with you. You, you're wonderful and I'm thrilled that I came on today.

Louise Palanker (01:24:26):

Me too. All right. I'm gonna read our closing credits. We would love for you to join us online on Instagram and Twitter, where we are at Media Path Pod and on Facebook where we are. Media Path Podcast. You can find full episodes with all kinds of bonus visual content on our YouTube channel Media Path podcast. We would love to know what media you've been enjoying. You can contact us at our social media or email us at Media Path We wanna thank our guest, John Bowser Bellman. Our team includes Dean of Friedman, Francesco Desmond, John Maddox, Sharon Beo, bill Philip Bak, Thomas Hubble, Alex Gilroy, and you. Our theme music is by me and John Maddox. I am Louise p Planker here with Fritz Coleman. We will see you along the media path. What else, Fritz?

Fritz Coleman (01:25:08):

And if you enjoyed this episode of Media Path, it would help us a great deal to be more discoverable by potential new listeners. If you would leave us a quick review on Apple Podcast. And if you're new here and this is your first time with us, please check out our back catalog, binge worthy stuff. We can get Gary Puckett and the Kils and Henry Winkler and Keith Morrison and Diane Warren. And Tony Dow and Bill Mumey. It's endless. And, and, uh, we can't wait to add, uh, the John Bowman episode. It's the longest one we've done. And honestly, maybe one of the most interesting.

Louise Palanker (01:25:39):

It's because he's, he's such a hybrid.

Fritz Coleman (01:25:42):

That's right. Thank you for spending an hour with us and we will be overjoyed. If you would just take a moment to share your thoughts with us or recommend us to a friend. Be safe.

Louise Palanker (01:25:51):

Hey, John, that was awesome. That was

Fritz Coleman (01:25:53):

Really, really great, really wonderful

Louise Palanker (01:25:55):

And all this stuff we like, we're, Fritz and I are like deeply immersed in politics, so we love talking about this with you. Cause you, you're such an expert.

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