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Episode 43

Family Harmonies & Pop Sensations featuring The Cowsills

Episode  43
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At the waning edge of the turbulent sixties The Cowsills topped the charts with an infectious power popped sound that was loved by kids and parents and trusted by parents because, after all, their mom was in the band! The real-life Cowsills inspired the sit-com Partridge Family but The Cowsills’ public facing talent and charm was haunted by behind-the-scenes secrets and fears. Bob, Paul and Susan Cowsill have survived and thrived and they join Fritz and Weezy to talk about their new podcast, an upcoming album and the future of the Happy Together Tour. Plus Fritz and Weezy are recommending The Keepers, The Father, Ginny and Georgia and Ricki Lee Jones’ new autobiography, Last Chance Texaco.

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Louise Palanker (00:00:03):

Welcome to Media Path. I am Louise Palanker.

Fritz Coleman (00:00:06):

And I'm Fritz Coleman.

Louise Palanker (00:00:08):

Today on the show, we've got a group of performers who are paving a rich and scenic media path lush with music and film and live performances and podcasting. They are the Cows Hills, Bob, Paul, and Susan from the Legendary Band. They will be joining us today, plus Fritz and I have some viewing recommendations for you. So what have you brought to class Fritz?

Fritz Coleman (00:00:30):

Alright, we, I, I, I, I know you've watched this, so I can't wait to talk to you about it. This is about The Keepers, which is a multi-part series on Netflix right now. It's a seven parter, and it was released in 2017, and apparently it's enormously popular, one of the most streamed segments on Netflix. It examines the decades old murder of Sister Katherine Cick and a suspected link to a priest accused of abuse. Now, the overall arc is similar to the one in the film Spotlight. It was an Oscar nominated film that took place in Boston with the investigation of the Boston Archdiocese, while the Keepers happens in the Baltimore Archdiocese, and like Spotlight the Keepers details, uh, with various aspects of priest of use, the coverup and the stonewalling and foot dragging by local law enforcement. But I have to say, the Keepers is much more powerful.


And I'll tell you why. The story evolves more slowly over seven episodes. That gives you time to bond with this large cast of characters. It allows smaller, more touching human stories to play out. It's, it's a little more melancholy. It goes deeper into the toll that abuse and its cover up take on a community. Now, in 1969, when Sister Kathy csn, a beloved teacher, Archbishop Keo High School in Baltimore, was murdered. It was a neighborhood shattering experience. Slowly her family and supporters through dogged investigation discovered that she may have been murdered to stop her from revealing what she knew about the widespread abuse of many girls at this Catholic high school by its highest ranking official Father Joseph Maskell. And since this is not new territory, I'm gonna suggest why you should watch this, the driving force of this whole series is that Sister Kathy helps so many girls at their high school point, pivotal moment in their lives that even though it's 50 years later, a group of her supporters has decided they're not going to rest until they get some answers about her murder.


A group of her former devoted students does their own grassroots investigation to find out how she died and by whose hand, and they're still at it. And you realize ways that, uh, we, we know that abuse ripples out and affects hundreds of family and friends beyond those that were abused. But in this series, you realize also that the good work and the love shown by one gifted nun, the sister says, Nick ripples out and affects hundreds of people as well. I thought it was a really, I'm not a huge crime guy. I thought this was a really touching story. How about you?

Louise Palanker (00:03:22):

It's touching, it's moving. It's beautiful. And it's another tale of Sleuthy ladies trying to solve a crime. And it's a very personal crime for them, because this is a person who meant a lot to them, and they just feel like du justice must be done in her honor, in her memory. And it's, it's a beautiful story. I

Fritz Coleman (00:03:42):

Was, I mean, how many people I I, I agree a hundred percent with what you're saying. How many people, um, uh, uh, have an effect on somebody's life where 50 years later they devote all of their extra time and their obsessive determination to find out something that happened to you. It's, it's, it's an, it's a profound piece of work. I think

Louise Palanker (00:04:04):

It is The Keepers and it's on Netflix.

Fritz Coleman (00:04:07):

What do you got?

Louise Palanker (00:04:08):

So, uh, have you watched the father starring Anthony Hopkins? I

Fritz Coleman (00:04:11):

Haven't seen that yet, but it's a bucket list thing for

Louise Palanker (00:04:13):

Me. Right. So it's, it's Oscar nominated and it's basically Hannibal Lecter gets old and disoriented and he can't remember who he ate. <laugh>. So ha


That's the movie for you then. Dive In The film depicts a confusion of dementia by unraveling events from the perspective of the afflicted lead character. As the scenes unfold, the circumstances and the faces and the space time continuum are continually shifting, allowing the viewer to experience the frustration, confusion, and isolation of memory loss. Anthony Hopkins is sensational and the film has earned six Academy Award nominations, including best Picture, best actor for Anthony Hopkins and best supporting actor Olivia Coleman. It's a pay-per-view type of situation on Amazon, so you may wanna wait until it's more readily available. And it, it does kind of present as a play so it be in the, the right frame of mind. But it's a really interesting piece of acting.

Fritz Coleman (00:05:11):

Oh my gosh. Both of those people, uh, worth it. Uh, I can't wait to see it. It's, it's one of those things I wanna watch. Well, I can't wait to talk to Susan Castle about this, cuz this is another woman who found her musical soul, uh, ending up in New Orleans. It's the autobiography by Ricky Lee Jones called Last Chance Texaco. And, uh, she now makes her residence there. I, I've always been a fan of Ricky Lee Jones, one of the soulful voices and songwriters of the seventies. She had a few mainstream hits, Chuckies in Loves Satellite. She had some great albums, pirates Flying Cowboys, the magazine I've always been drawn to kind of funky, bluesy female voices, Bonnie Ray and Janice Joplin and the like, uh, Ricky nickname is the Duchess of Colesville. It's so perfect <laugh>. And, and I always wonder about the mystery of the sound of soul and rhythm and blues among white performers and how that blessing gets bestowed on some people and not so much on others.


Well, Ricky has that gift. Her voice to me is like, uh, a, a miles Davis trumpet. And, and when you read this book, you see that her voice was built from the ground up. Although her parents loved her, the one thing they didn't give her was stability in her childhood. They were always losing jobs. They were always losing houses. They were always getting thrown outta towns. They zig-zagged across the country making a pattern on a map like the Barrow Gang escape roots. So throughout her life, Invis book Ricky's in a constant quest for home, a stable life, and an identity that can't be taken away from her or by a man. There are stories about betting lots of men in the elusive search for love. There's a dark slide into heroin addiction. There are con men, con women. There are stories of never knowing where you're gonna sleep that night.


There are stories of getting her heart broken in every town there is the love bomb in her life. That is Tom waits great descriptions. Ultimately, there's Ricky finding her sound and her voice. She's an excellent writer Beyond autobiography, I think she could be a a, a writer for other things as well. I'll give you an example and then I'll talk to you about it. Weis her her description of sleeping with Tom Waits for the first time and the next morning weights treating her coldly and expecting her to leave immediately is that classic female Lament q Will You Still Love Me tomorrow? Uh, that song, it, it's really touching and it describes a common female experience. She also has a great passage describing her first appearance of Saturday Night Live. You're on the edge of your seat. She's an excellent writer and she could do a great job chronically in the late sixties and early seventies, even when it wasn't about her. So it's Ricky Lee Jones autobiography. I highly recommend it.

Louise Palanker (00:08:08):

Wow, that sounds fantastic. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I will definitely get that. So the last pick I have, uh, is a little, uh, series called Ginny and Georgia. It's on Netflix. Have you seen any of this? Fritz? Mm-hmm. Okay. So here you go. Free spirited Georgia and her two kids, Ginny and Austin, move north to a picturesque New England town in search of a fresh start. But are they running towards a new life or away from darkness and demons? And can you ever really escape your twisted history or does it eventually unravel? This series is a sort of hybrid genre, I would call it thriller slash family slash crazy ass. It's so completely nuts this show. You don't, you don't know what hit you. You don't know what's going on. Wait. In that previous scene where there's some scenes that I was supposed to remember for this next thing, cuz it's very complicated. There's money, there's, there's crime, there's murder, there's the, you know, it's just mysterious and there's moral dilemmas. And if that's your thing, go ahead and dive in. The performances are wonderful. It's called Ginny and Georgia.

Fritz Coleman (00:09:06):


Louise Palanker (00:09:07):

Fantastic. Are you ready for our guests, Fritz? Let's

Fritz Coleman (00:09:09):

Get here. I'm, I'm applauding already.

Louise Palanker (00:09:11):

All right, get excited. The casts are an American singing group from Newport Rhode Island, their sweet intricately woven harmonic, pop sound top. The charts in the late sixties featuring six siblings and their mother. The group ultimately inspired the 1970s television show, the Partridge Family, a documentary film called Family Ban. The Cow Seals reveals the talent and the truth, which fueled their trajectory. That film was made by me, and you can find it on Amazon Prime <laugh> Calcis continue to perform humble, humble, plug the Calcis continue to perform and record. They've got a bunch of new music about to drop, and the pandemic has inspired their own podcast, which you can find wherever you look for podcasts. So please welcome Paul Woo, Bob and Susan kci.

Fritz Coleman (00:09:53):

Hey, Fred Louise.

Bob Cowskill  (00:09:55):

Hey, everybody. So happy to see,

Susan Cowskill  (00:09:57):

Can you all hear me? Yeah.

Bob Cowskill  (00:09:58):


Susan Cowskill  (00:09:59):

Okay. Because I had this mute scene going on when y'all were talking and I was freaking me out, but I'm good now you're

Fritz Coleman (00:10:05):

Back. No, you good? You're coming in loud and clear from New Orleans.

Susan Cowskill  (00:10:07):

Yes. So new. I'm actually out in Violet at my daughter's house. The thanks for asking.

Louise Palanker (00:10:13):

So I wanna start the conversation by saying that I'm wondering if we could talk for a moment about the peculiar relationship between a documentary filmmaker and her subjects. I can speak about this unique workmate dynamic from the filmmaker perspective as feeling it once intimate and distant in that as subjects of a film, you're subjecting yourselves to an invasive process. And so the inclination is to construct healthy barriers plus terms and conditions, et cetera. How did it feel for you? Did you have to just trust and pray? Or did you guys organize in terms of like, here's what we're gonna do to fortify ourselves against we here? Like how did it, how did it feel from your perspective,

Bob Cowskill  (00:10:56):

<laugh>? Well, I'll go first. Do it. Okay. Louise, first of all, Louise Lanker, when she, uh, approached us was an annoying, tenacious, would not go away <laugh> person in my life. And, and, and I say it lovingly, you know, but it's true. And, and because she came in one night, uh, and said, Hey, we wanna do a documentary about your family. Now, this was a, uh, back a ways where you would, if you're in the family, we'd go, well, why? You know? So I'm going like, why <laugh>? And then what? We just wanna know how you got on the Ed Sullivan show. And I remember in my head, I'm going, she wants to know how we got on the Ed Sullivan show. That's the documentary. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I go, that could be entertaining and very positive. So I kind of thought that was cool. But you know, Louise, at first I'm going, no, no. Then she comes back with other people, oh, we got the army coming at me now, and no, and then I'm going, I better ask the rest of the family. This girl is not going away. <laugh>.

Louise Palanker (00:11:54):

So can I, can I say in my own defense here, I never heard the word no. I heard a lot of reasons why it would be complicated. He never actually said, yeah, you're right, Susan, Susan, you know, your brother. I was trying to convince her. He was deflecting,

Bob Cowskill  (00:12:09):

I was trying to convince you of right, the error of your ways. Yes, <laugh>, you're wrong to wanna do

Susan Cowskill  (00:12:13):

This. He said, listen, I can actually tell you what he said. And I wasn't even there. Okay. You said, I wanna do a documentary about your family plan. And Bob said, no, you don't.

Louise Palanker (00:12:23):


Susan Cowskill  (00:12:24):

Or something akin to that.

Louise Palanker (00:12:26):

Uh, could have gone along those lines. He would say things. But

Bob Cowskill  (00:12:28):

Honestly, getting back to your question, you know, once you start a process like that, if you've never been through it, you don't know what's coming. You don't know how deep it's gonna get. You don't know what turns you're gonna take and what you're gonna find out. So this is an evolution as you do it. So to me, anyway, personally, there was no premeditated fear or like, it was just a matter of why does Louise wanna do this? You don't make money on documentaries. Uh, but then as you know, Louise, once we got going, the story was so riveting and so deep, deeper than everyone thought, uh, that, oh, this is a documentary and you start experiencing it. Yeah, there's psych sessions, you know, you sit in a circle and tell everything, and we get that. But by that time, we were four or five years into it, Louise, and you had like, just pounded us into submission.

Fritz Coleman (00:13:16):

<laugh>, I, I, I gotta tell you something, I'm, I'm gonna be the objective, uh, person here who wasn't part of the emotional process. Uh, this is a beautiful piece of work and not even for musical reasons. And, and I've said this to Louise, this, this film represented, uh, sort of the post World War ii, um, euphoria of peace and prosperity and what we expected an American family to look like. And what this movie did was peel back the layers to show you that what you saw in the Ed Sullivan Show and the Andy Williams show and in the hit records that were positive and made you smile, was nothing like the truth. And it was an honest look at real American families that were not what they represented on the surface. And I don't mean that critically. I mean, as a, as a point of being so truthful.


And I think we experienced that again with the Jackson family, where, oh, look how cute they are, and they're the wonderful family. Well, the truth was not that, and I thought it was so important at what it pointed out. And with all the fame and fortune you had, the heartache and the, uh, and, and, and the loss. Even if you're not interested in cast's music, even if you're not interested in that era of American hits, it is a really interesting look at the fifties, sixties, and seventies, and the American family of what it represented, what it was represented like on television and what it was in. So, I I just thought it was spectacular.

Susan Cowskill  (00:14:55):

Thank you,

Paul Cowskill (00:14:56):

Fritz. Thank you very much. Thank you. That was Mr. Wizard.

Louise Palanker (00:14:59):

I think a lot of people, you know, now we have some perspective. We have a frame of reference in, in through which we can look back and we can look at, you know, life for you guys before the film and after the film. And like Paul was telling me that like, the film didn't provide any therapy that Paul needed. He's the same guy before, same guy after. But Paul has said that he can tell when someone's approaching him, whether or not they've seen the movie, just by the way, <laugh>, they're looking at him.

Susan Cowskill  (00:15:28):

We have a name

Paul Cowskill (00:15:28):

For it. I have to tell you, Louise, it's so funny. What is the name? Susan?

Susan Cowskill  (00:15:33):

We call it documentary Face <laugh>. And we know it when people are coming because, cause we'll be sitting around having a happy conversation and, and we'll be at a gig or maybe, uh, sitting down to the meet and greet. We're all jacked up after the show. Happy as normal as we are. And the next thing you know, man, we'll look down the line and we'll see people looking at us <laugh>. And they will have their heads tilted slightly in a little bit of a head down and a oh oh oh look on their face. And we'll go, you're concerned, uhoh.

Paul Cowskill (00:16:04):

That's so interesting.

Bob Cowskill  (00:16:06):

Oh, yeah. You know how many times I've heard the words, you're okay. Are you okay? <laugh>, are

Susan Cowskill  (00:16:11):

You okay? Oh my God. And then, and then you have to kind of get ready for them because you don't, you know, now they wanna be sad with you, <laugh>.

Louise Palanker (00:16:20):

I think they wanna comfort you. They wanna give you a hug.

Paul Cowskill (00:16:23):

Does nobody see this finger?

Susan Cowskill  (00:16:25):

Yeah, but it's mostly just speak. I

Louise Palanker (00:16:27):

Can't see you. Oh, we don't know your codes. I have to put it on gallery.

Susan Cowskill  (00:16:29):

I if I saw it. I know. L i I just can't see.

Louise Palanker (00:16:32):

No, I heard you talking about it on your, on your podcast.

Paul Cowskill (00:16:35):

I'm getting styl. Yes. But,

Louise Palanker (00:16:36):

All right. Paul has a point.

Paul Cowskill (00:16:38):

I well, I have a point. And the only reason I raise my fingers cuz for whatever reason, I'll have the point in like 10 seconds later, my mind will think about something else. It's just a moment. And then I'll, I call that, forget what I was gonna say.

Louise Palanker (00:16:50):

I call that pulling a Dickie.

Bob Cowskill  (00:16:52):


Louise Palanker (00:16:53):

We have a get me back.

Bob Cowskill  (00:16:54):

Please. Have a rapid finger reaction when Paul goes that way. <laugh>, you

Paul Cowskill (00:16:58):

Mean, you mean addicting like the shirt? No,

Louise Palanker (00:17:00):

You, no, no. And

Susan Cowskill  (00:17:01):

To be, and to be fair, y'all on the council podcast, we all see each other and that's how we know the other guy's gonna say something. Yeah. And Austin, I'll say, Paul, you have something you do.

Paul Cowskill (00:17:11):

I was wondering why you weren't saying,

Susan Cowskill  (00:17:13):

Oh, I didn't see you, dude.

Paul Cowskill (00:17:15):

Anyway, but here's my perspective on, on the, uh, what we're talking about here.

Louise Palanker (00:17:20):

Documentary face.

Paul Cowskill (00:17:21):

Yeah. So I'm working on Grim. Okay. And I've been working grim since it's pilot times, you know, and, um, and everybody knows who I am, but you know, this is grim and so everybody's somebody, right? So, and I'm never acting like I'm anybody. So, you know, time's going by. I don't really think I, you know, when you start spreading the news about something, sometimes it doesn't happen, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So like, I never really say, oh man, we got a documentary out because, well, we made a documentary, but it might not come out. You know, there's always these things. So I always kept things quiet even about the band. One time I said, I said, two years before we gutted, I said to somebody, you know, I think we might be going on the Happy Together tour, man, like an hour later I come on to set it grim and everybody's coming up congratulating me, going, man, you made it happy together.


It, everybody knows the turtles and all that. And I'm going, oh yeah, man. Not a week later I had to go back in and say, Hey, you know, it didn't happen. You know? I thought, yeah, RO rah, but, so here it is so grim. And now the thing is on Showtime, okay, now I haven't told us Soul on set or anybody in this production company. Hey, watch Showtime. Uh, there's a movie on, on there. But, so it's a Monday, I go over the mountain on Sunday, I get my room and I go to go to where we're filming. I go on to the set and everybody stopped. And every, I mean, we're talking, the directors guys we're talking shooting, shut down, and you know how expensive that can be. And I walk in and I'm, you know, dirty head to toe. I'm a greensman, you know, I'm throwing trees all day. And I go in there, everybody turned around and like all these guys, all the heads of the gers and the grips, they all came and they all had their hands out <laugh>, like big teddy bears, you know, they were all coming to hug me at once. And I was going, whoa, whoa, whoa guys, I'm okay. I'm, I did a little dance for him. Show them I was it a happy guy. Still. It's, it's just a documentary. Everybody relax. So that was clearly,

Bob Cowskill  (00:19:19):

They did experience. Clearly they didn't watch it to the end. <laugh> to me, if you watch it to the end, you know, we're okay. But you know, people, they yeah. They walk away with their bullet points and you can't

Paul Cowskill (00:19:31):


Bob Cowskill  (00:19:32):

Override them. Well,

Fritz Coleman (00:19:33):

I mean, and it's also a, a thing where that's the discovery of the movie. It's exactly the opposite of what you guys represented in public for so many years. And so it's a shock, but it's touching and moving and human. But it is different. It's so different from what they expected.

Bob Cowskill  (00:19:50):

Yes. One of the things Fritz is talking about is back then you controlled your image, you could do it. Yeah. Today, documentaries that are made about things today aren't gonna be that powerful because everything's reality already right now, there, there's no unpeeling of the onion. Yeah. It's unpeeled as we go. Yeah. But from the days when we were young and having a group, they absolutely controlled our squeaky clean image. And everything that was happening in the back of that was not news and not, uh, not a problem.

Louise Palanker (00:20:19):

And there was even some traumatic stuff that happened that you just kept out of the press. That's what a press agent was for. Not always just to announce something, but to also cover something and, and muffle it. And they did that for you guys. For example, the, the scene between Billy and your dad, uh, which happened in a public location, and, you know, none of that got

Bob Cowskill  (00:20:38):

Out amazing. Well, that was

Susan Cowskill  (00:20:40):

Kinda back in the day where things, you know, we didn't have the kind of media we had. If, if we had, we had now it would've gotten out. Right. It wasn't, I don't think it was really that note newsworthy, quite honestly, because the, our society wasn't really set up, I don't think like that at that point. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I mean, we weren't that famous if Frank's aina her or somebody, you know what I'm saying? But

Fritz Coleman (00:21:03):

Yeah. Now every trivial person gets all the social media they can handle today. It's ridiculous. Right. It's

Susan Cowskill  (00:21:09):

Unbelievable. But, but you guys, like, like did you guys think that that happened and then, and then MGM or whoever we were with covered that up or helped squelch it? Or do you think nobody gave a shit?

Fritz Coleman (00:21:20):

<laugh> <laugh>?

Bob Cowskill  (00:21:22):

No. The Susan there was active. Active, uh,

Susan Cowskill  (00:21:26):

I wouldn't

Bob Cowskill  (00:21:27):

Know Pursuit of controlling the word. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Susan Cowskill  (00:21:31):

Okay. See, I don't, I was a kid. I wouldn't know that. Yeah. That's very interesting. Yeah. Larry Susan's gotten every day.

Fritz Coleman (00:21:36):

Susan, while we're talking about your life. Yeah. The, uh,

Paul Cowskill (00:21:39):

Um, you know, also we gotta, we, and you know, we, you know, as even young adults, we all always had this in our mind. We're, we're talking about depression. When we talk about our mother and father, we're talking about depression era people. Okay. And, and the, the whole attitude was, you know, spare the rod, spoil the child. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and, and that's was just everybody was getting smacked, man. You know, it was just, it was a time. And unfortunately we were little kids inside it.

Bob Cowskill  (00:22:10):

<laugh> Yes. Today he, our father would be probably jailed for some of the things he did. But, but today he would certainly not be the only father from the sixties in that era. That that would be true of

Susan Cowskill  (00:22:23):

If I have their own little prison set aside for those dudes.

Bob Cowskill  (00:22:26):

Yeah. With our human situation,

Fritz Coleman (00:22:28):

Human resources, prison. There'd be bosses in there. There'd be all kinds of people in there.

Paul Cowskill (00:22:31):

<laugh>. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman (00:22:32):


Bob Cowskill  (00:22:33):

Our situation, our situation was, was the acuteness of it. Uh, it wasn't, you know, I had friend Joe Casey, his dad was just as bad. So it, it was how acute and the fact that we were gonna do a be in public and now we're gonna put a veneer on the whole cover it all with sugar and candy. I mean, it was crazy. <laugh>. It was crazy. But we let ask

Fritz Coleman (00:22:52):

You this. We were, you guys, um, you were talented musicians and wonderful performers. I love, you know, your smiles, you were so natural on stage. Were you willing participants in this family band, Mike God? Yes. Or or did you feel like, um, that that part of your, and maybe you wouldn't feel this until you became an adult, that part of your childhood was robbed and a little more normalcy would've been better?

Paul Cowskill (00:23:18):

I can ans I I'd like to mention that is is that exactly, it's opposite.

Bob Cowskill  (00:23:23):


Paul Cowskill (00:23:24):

You know, for me it's, it's really the opposite.

Susan Cowskill  (00:23:27):

Yeah. No, I don't, I didn't feel anything was, we had such an inside, um, playground of normal childhood ness within the system known as the siblings that when, whenever we were not working, we were having our childhood with one. And, and so maybe the only thing that was different to me that I would notice that was different from any of my other friends is that they didn't play music and drive around, but their parents were always up in their grill and they were always in trouble too. And people were getting smacked around down there and life was not good on there in their house. We all stayed outside for a freaking reason. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So when we're in it, Fritz, it's not like we're in there like, oh God, this is, I mean, in private moment, hell yeah. But that's such a, a microcosm even as you go through your life. Um, you know, that's under nature. I think the beauty of life is it provides you the, the overview as a, a majority if you're lucky. And so for me it's like I can look back and we can tell the stories and we know exactly when it went down and on the in between, it really, we were having a damn good time. And how that balanced out. You got me. I mean, you know, we're probably

Bob Cowskill  (00:24:48):

It balanced, it balanced perfectly. Cause here's was the deal for, its the, the kids us, we, we formed this band.

Susan Cowskill  (00:24:57):

Yeah. We wanted,

Bob Cowskill  (00:24:57):

We dragged our parents, we dragged our parents into it. We got too good to be denied in the house. So our dad stops a 20 year military career in the Navy. He sees that there's value here. We start playing clubs. So, and, and the one place that we could be together as children, where our parents couldn't really infiltrate or really say anything cuz they didn't know anything, was when we were playing music and we were doing shows on stage, all that. To this day, you were in control. That joy, that's

Louise Palanker (00:25:26):

Ing they were the bosses of the music. That's

Bob Cowskill  (00:25:28):

Right. That we grew up with when we were in the studio. There's no dad. I

Louise Palanker (00:25:31):

Have a question for Susan. A lot of grown men are now stepping forward to confess that you were their first crush. Were you aware of this at the time?

Susan Cowskill  (00:25:40):

No, not even slightly. The only way I was ever aware of the boy factor out there in regards to me that I am now incredibly aware of, um, is I would s like occasionally a boy would make it backstage somehow with a family. And then there it would be. And then I was like, crushed zilla. So I would just be like, oh, wow. And now I have a captured bird in a ca <laugh> <laugh>, you know? And so I would experience it like that, but I didn't know that out in the audience was the United States of America, eight to 11 squad <laugh> going, you know? Oh my God. But here's the thing, you guys, and here's what's the thing about my little princess ness of it all. I was the only game in town at that time. There was no pop music public young girl available to have a crush on, except me. Think about it. And either were tv. Pardon me.

Fritz Coleman (00:26:46):

It's a great market. Good for you. You

Susan Cowskill  (00:26:48):

Don't wanna take any credit for the, for being adorable. Come on. No, no, no. But all I'm trying to say is I'm a bit of a phenomenon that like, like a good, like, God, I don't even know if we did the poll it's percentage of men. I was their I <laugh>.

Bob Cowskill  (00:27:02):

So Susan, you're, you're basically admitting that it was by default, there was just no competition.

Susan Cowskill  (00:27:08):

Okay. That's what I'm trying to say. It's

Fritz Coleman (00:27:10):

Like she was the

Susan Cowskill  (00:27:11):

Bachelorette. Let, there's only Susan one.

Fritz Coleman (00:27:13):

Susan, let me ask you a follow up question about Yeezy's question. And I, and I th this, this question came to me as I was listening to you. First of all, your podcast is fantastic. You guys are up and funny with great, uh, stories about the rock and roll era. It's really wonderful. And I, I loved your story. Uh, I can't remember the guy's name. I think he was the lead singer of the Buckinghams. Oh yes. And you were, and you were talking to him about him sort of taking you, not not taking you onto his wings too strong, but relating to you backstage, uh, you know, between shows and everything. And I thought, you know, we're in a really different time now mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, what, what, what were the parameters? I mean, did you have people that okay. Protected you or, yeah. Till he met dad, like an adult.

Susan Cowskill  (00:28:00):

Here's the thing, Fritz is, I've got a really messed up story about that very specifically. And in my opinion, in my experience, parameters of that was nothing more or less than Paul coming over to me and going, Hey, uh, let me, if I'm playing Jax, which I was, and him going, yeah, I'll do a round with you or any other guy, teenage guy my brother's age approaching me was nothing more than that. Now the fact that he was so cute, but so are my brothers. I mean, it's like, for me, it, it, it wasn't a thing. Now that being said, this actually happened. And Dennis Tofano, the lead singer of the Buckinghams told me this when we all became friends later in life. And here's what happened to Dennis. Dennis has an answer for you that is quite disturbing. And that is that my father, we, so Dennis and I, I like Dennis, he was really sweet. He would ask me questions, cared again, cared. I liked ta. He was just an engaging young adult. And uh, evidently on the second show we played with him and my dad seeing me having a pal, he came up to Dennis Tofano and he said to him in that real unfriendly, lean in in your ear, quiet pat you on the back when you go kind of way. I don't wanna see you around my daughter.

Fritz Coleman (00:29:32):

Wow. God.

Susan Cowskill  (00:29:34):

And Dennis, who's like 18, 19, he, yeah, he said, he goes and then he's telling the story. He goes, Susan, he the weirdest thing to me. And it freaked me out. I was a kid, I didn't know what he was talking about. And then I thought, what is this guy talking about? And, and then I wanted to punch him out cuz I'm Italian, I'm a kid, I wanna go. You're discu. You know, little did Dennis know, you know that my dad was that guy. So how ironic that my dad Wow. Is going to pose as a protector of me from Dennis. Only because

Fritz Coleman (00:30:08):

He was projecting,

Susan Cowskill  (00:30:10):

Because he was just making sure nobody ever asked me too many questions. Anyway. But

Louise Palanker (00:30:14):

He was, he was legit

Susan Cowskill  (00:30:15):


Fritz Coleman (00:30:16):

Yeah. His was

Susan Cowskill  (00:30:17):


Fritz Coleman (00:30:18):

I just look at it in terms

Susan Cowskill  (00:30:20):

Of, you know, he could,

Louise Palanker (00:30:21):

It was a control thing.

Fritz Coleman (00:30:22):

Yeah. I just look at it in terms of today, I, I mean law and, and the unions and everything would have you fore walled with, uh, your child advocacy protectors and all that kind of

Susan Cowskill  (00:30:35):

Stuff. No, nothing like that. Back in the,

Bob Cowskill  (00:30:37):

Well, it's funny, Fritz, because our dad's philosophy and his belief, uh, he used that four wall approach because he didn't want his sons dating. He didn't want his sons interacting with females. Wow. He didn't want any, now his sons were fine with that at the time because his sons were into music. Okay. So it's not like we're into music and missing girls. Uh, it's not, it's not that way. We're totally focused on music. But he was so afraid Yeah. That a woman would come along and take this whole operation down with one of us. Yeah. That he just was freaky about that. Wow.

Susan Cowskill  (00:31:11):

And also Bob personally, as an adult and an observer on the roundabout, dad kept us tight. Tight. You know, so nobody was saying, Hey <laugh>, can you get me outta here <laugh>? Yeah. You know, we couldn't, you didn't want you getting out too far cause we palsy. No

Louise Palanker (00:31:29):

Life boats pulling into the dock.

Susan Cowskill  (00:31:31):

<laugh>. Yeah. We were pretty, uh, you know, cuz we were pretty smart. Al I mean, Paul was fiercely brave, you know? And I bet Dad was like, these kids are not afraid enough. <laugh> <laugh>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Paul,

Paul Cowskill (00:31:45):

If I could, you know, cuz the question was did we feel like we might have lost the childhood in this? Yeah. Well the thing is, is that if we would, let's take the band element out of it. By the time one of us graduates from high school, one of us younger ones, somebody's gonna be dead because it wasn't gonna go well for us if this proceeded on the, the track that it was on. Right. You know, with the normal, you know, the Navy guy and we are living in naval housing, you know, all that is, you know who we are. That permeates who we were. And so we didn't lose any childhood. In fact, we got lucky. We got lucky because we had got to get out of there. I don't know what Joe Casey's doing, but he didn't get lucky. I know Tom ca you know, it's

Susan Cowskill  (00:32:27):

Right. We actually got out in the public side.

Paul Cowskill (00:32:30):

You got out and you know, and I think you ask any of us we'll forfeiture that dance or we'll forfeiture, uh, that graduation to not, cause we would've never made it to graduation. I certainly wouldn't have made it to graduate

Susan Cowskill  (00:32:43):

Brownies. I wanted to be in brownies.

Paul Cowskill (00:32:45):

Cause me and him were gonna roll. We were, we would've rolled. Cause I would've been, if the band hadn't to happened at 19 when he hit me the last time, that would've never gone that far because the, the band made everything okay man. It was

Louise Palanker (00:32:57):

Great. Well the band, oh the band gave you strength and it gave you purpose and it gave you a sense of identity that was valued in the world. Yeah.

Susan Cowskill  (00:33:05):

And not every kid <laugh>, not every kid has that under the cur under the conditions we were under, which is to Paul's point, we were home. We would just be getting all that negative and not all that positive. Which was confusing at times. But I think we were all smart enough to know that, uh, what do they like to say? 10,000 Elvis fans can't be wrong. We were good kids

Paul Cowskill (00:33:26):

<laugh>. Sure. Right on.

Louise Palanker (00:33:27):

But, but you did have a remarkable childhood through it all. Yeah,

Paul Cowskill (00:33:31):


Louise Palanker (00:33:31):

Had a, I thought we could have some fun talking about maybe your coolest celebrity encounter.

Susan Cowskill  (00:33:37):


Paul Cowskill (00:33:38):

Bob's got a great one. <laugh>.

Susan Cowskill  (00:33:41):

I'm trying to, well, no, that who wait, no.

Paul Cowskill (00:33:44):

Bob Bill Medley. Right? That's what I'm thinking.

Susan Cowskill  (00:33:48):


Bob Cowskill  (00:33:48):

Medley. Oh, you mean Gary Puckett?

Paul Cowskill (00:33:49):

No, I mean, well that's a good one too. But just Gary, that's a Grammy's with Bill Medley. You go Bob, you don't say

Bob Cowskill  (00:33:56):

Oh, that one. Yeah. Well that was hardly an encounter. I mean, look, when we were famous, it's not that we weren't aware. Okay. But when you're young, you don't carry it around with you all the time. So you think you're not

Susan Cowskill  (00:34:06):

I know I can

Bob Cowskill  (00:34:07):

See anywhere near as famous as anybody else. So I was at the Grammy's in 68, we were at the Grammy's and Bill Medley was getting a Grammy or gonna have a Grammy. Uh, and he was there and we're all tuxedoed up. I'm tucked up, I'll go along there. It's 1968, we're on our second million seller, you know, and Bill Medleys coming at me. And, and this is like, it's, you know, he's a monster of a guy. He looked like he was 10 feet tall and he wasn't. But of course. And he's all tuxedoed up and he's coming at me and I'm getting a Jada as he's getting closer. He's alone. I'm alone. And we just walked by each other. That was my encounter. <laugh>. I didn't talk to him. I didn't stop him. I didn't have the nerve to even look him in the eye. But I looked at his coat and his sleeve and his arm.

Susan Cowskill  (00:34:49):

And Bob got to tell Bill Medley of that on the cruise

Paul Cowskill (00:34:52):

Story? No. Oh

Bob Cowskill  (00:34:53):

Yeah. Oh I love that one. And me and Paul, me and Paul were at Lenny's Boot Parler. Yeah. We're talking 69. Okay. Yeah. Lenney's Mo Poly was a place we all went to get clothes and stuff and me and Paul were there. It's in Brentwood, California. And we go in and we're just looking at clothes and stuff. But we see Gary Puckett, but this is Gary Puckett Union Gap. He's on his eighth hit record, you know, and we we're on our second so we measure up. But like I say, you don't think that as a kid because our

Paul Cowskill (00:35:20):

Dad's telling us 18, 17 that we're not worth.

Bob Cowskill  (00:35:24):

So, cause you're being told you're nothing anyway. Right. So we stare, all we did was stare at Gary Puckett through, we're hiding behind a closer act. We don't want him to see us and we want see him and we're staring at him doing his transaction. And neither of us go up to him. Neither of us say hi Neith of us. That's hilarious. Do anything. He leaves the store and we man, and we're just going, that was Gary podcast. I wish we knew that last week when we Gary.

Louise Palanker (00:35:50):

Well, even though your names were like next to each other on the chart, like, you know, just kind of thinking

Susan Cowskill  (00:35:55):

That way. That didn't matter. <laugh>. But listen, I have one, and I had to think about this cuz it was a question asked to us and I couldn't think of anything specific cuz I was, I just, I was, I don't know. But I thought of who impressed me and I didn't know why they impressed me so much until about three summers ago. But the story goes like this. So we're at the Grammy's because we're famous What year guys? Where we were presenters

Bob Cowskill  (00:36:21):

69 68. It's a Bill Medley one. Okay. John, John Lennon's. Rolls Royce was outside the Paisley. It's

Susan Cowskill  (00:36:29):

A big night. You guys we're at the Grammy's. We're gonna present, I don't even know that part. I just know I have a green velvet lace dress. <laugh>, we're gonna see Frankie Valley and I know that are the two things that's going to happen cuz that mom kept saying that thing. And then there's all these pictures, um, from the event. And sure enough, we're with the Four Seasons and, and I remember eating at the table and the butter was unsalted and she's eight years

Bob Cowskill  (00:36:53):


Susan Cowskill  (00:36:55):

But, but what I didn't remember was a very big thing that happened that night. But here's how it rolled out in my life, all my life. I felt like Glen Campbell was my responsibility. Okay. That Glen and I were so close that perhaps we were separated at birth, but he was older. But I just felt that, I don't know, I should take care of him. He belonged to me. I must know everything he does. And every song he's sang. So he dies and I go to pieces on the happy together term Mark Vollman. We were all going out to dinner and I'm crying like a baby and it's just bad cuz I have lost a soulmate. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I get back to the bus and I go online and I'm looking on Facebook and somebody posts a picture of Polly of the whole family at the Grammy's. And Polly is holding me up, of course, traditionally me buy my dress, which is now exposing my underpants or my type <laugh>. And that's just the way it happened. But he's holding me an, I am reading the winner to Glen Campbell for his Grammy for by the time I get to Phoenix.

Louise Palanker (00:38:00):


Susan Cowskill  (00:38:01):

Yep. So I didn't know I was obsessed with this guy. Worried sick, felt like I had to watch out for him. He got Alzheimer's. I better, I was erect and I just always felt really close. <laugh>.

Louise Palanker (00:38:15):

Yeah. There was a connection.

Bob Cowskill  (00:38:16):

And for Did you ever get word of that to Glen Susan? Did you, what? You ever get word of that to Glen Campbell? No, he probably wouldn't meet him alone for this.

Susan Cowskill  (00:38:24):

He was gone and I would've gone and taken care of him and I would've You didn't know. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (00:38:30):


Susan Cowskill  (00:38:31):

Anyway, so that's my encounter. Paul,

Bob Cowskill  (00:38:34):

I'll, let me tell you my

Fritz Coleman (00:38:34):

Glen Campbell story. I've already told Wheezy, you can go get a sandwich or something.


Oh my, one of the last live shows he did was in a place called Sun City in Indio. And I opened for him and he had already been diagnosed and it was already public. Uh, and, and you know, I i i I sort of not being really that educated about Alzheimer's and all of its symptoms, I didn't know how this was gonna go. We did two shows and his wife was running the band at that time. As a matter of fact, two of his kids were playing in the band. And he did two shows that were perfect. I mean, there were no forgetting lyrics. There were no forgetting guitar riffs. You know, he was one of the seasoned session guitar players of all time. He was perfect. The only time you would notice that he had issues when he was just having a conversation with you. But all that muscle memory, all the, all the rote that he had accumulated over the years in his music, you would never know. It was two hours of Jimmy Webb hits and it was fantastic. And then, but he was, he got very tired and he took a nap between shows. And if you had a conversation with him, you couldn't expect perfection. But it was a really interesting look at that disease. How Wow. You know, it affects certain parts of your brain. Not absolutely

Susan Cowskill  (00:39:55):

Crazy. He managed that. Yeah. He, I saw not in person ever but the end. But I saw a lot of things he was doing and he was killing it.

Paul Cowskill (00:40:02):

He was, he

Louise Palanker (00:40:03):

Was really cool documentary on

Fritz Coleman (00:40:04):

Him. His voice was beautiful. It was amazing. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (00:40:06):

And, and what did you have, Paul? You had one?

Paul Cowskill (00:40:08):

Well, yeah, I guess mine would be Chuck Negron. I mean the crazy man. So Three Dog Knight all the time, you know, and, uh, me and my girlfriend we're, we're writing letters, you know. And, uh, and so letters are going, letters are going, and then this song comes out one, you know, and one is the loneliest number. And so at the end of all these letters to Meredith, I would put one is the loneliest number, you know? And, and so then I hear we're going on tour with this guy, okay. Through the happy together. And I'm going, God, Chuck Negron. I mean, all of a sudden we're embedded and like, he's right beside me and it's like a foot and a half between us. Really? Oh my God. <laugh>. That's the how it goes. And, and you know, and it was funny cuz man, I was blown away. I was a little nervous and stuff, but I wanted to tell him this story. And so I, I'm laying this all out to Chuck, you know, <laugh> and he just looking at me going, what? He's thinking I'm spoofing him. I I we thinking I'm being an a wisecracker or a wise guy, you know? Yeah. And, uh, it took a couple of weeks and I kept telling him, dude, you think I'm being a punk? But I'm telling you, that is how much I thought of you all the time. You know? And, uh, yeah. So

Bob Cowskill  (00:41:23):

That was, I'd like to just follow up. I'd just like to follow up. Clarify the bed comment. Paul just made <laugh>.

Susan Cowskill  (00:41:30):

It's true.

Bob Cowskill  (00:41:31):

It's a birth, it's a birth and a bus. The foot and a half is the hallway between one birth and another. They're not in a king bed. Right.

Susan Cowskill  (00:41:39):

Thank you, Bob.

Bob Cowskill  (00:41:40):

Trying to stay apart from each other.

Paul Cowskill (00:41:41):

There's been se there were several times because he's a busy sleeper and I'm a busy sleeper, you know, I guess. Yeah. So when we're sleeping, I remember putting my arm out like this. I don't know what I was looking for. I wanted to open the curtain cuz those curtains can get really weird. And I put my arm out and I touched Chuck and I, and I looked at my arm and I looked out the curtain. I go, sorry dude. He goes, Hey, no problem. You know? No, he's up all night. You know? Yeah. If you put your arm out, man, you're touching him. It's crazy.

Susan Cowskill  (00:42:09):

Listen, listen, listen. Some nights when everybody's asleep, like, I'm up all night, I really am up all night. And I'll come to bed finally around five or six. And you open up that door and there's like four arms hanging out. <laugh> like, it looks like you're in a morgue. <laugh>, there's sleeping. You know, and they're, I'm like, what in the is

Fritz Coleman (00:42:31):

Ask you guys a question about where you were in music history. You know, you had your hits in your peak, sort of in the late sixties and, and that was a time of great rebellion. You had the British invasion and the start of psychedelic music and Hendrix and all this. So did you guys as having to produce hits for a record company, feel the pressure of all that when you were recording?

Bob Cowskill  (00:42:54):

Not really. Yeah. Not really. And the reason being, you know, by the time like Susan was eight, I was actually 17, so Susan's seven, Paul's 15, we'd been dropped from two record labels and uh, had put out four releases that tanked. They didn't do well. So we'd gone through two yeses, uh, already. And we got a third. Yes, we got a third Yes. With mgm. And by that time, uh, after being dropped from two labels, then they thought that was the best time to put our mother in the band. And that, that was like insane. That could be its own documentary, but <laugh>. Uh, but we, you know, basically, I've lost my train of thought. Now see Paul that says that's what

Paul Cowskill (00:43:38):


Fritz Coleman (00:43:38):

Pass, no pressure, pressure to produce in the midst of all

Bob Cowskill  (00:43:42):

Oh yeah. There was no pressure because to us it was always what's next? Oh, Artie Kornfeld is gonna produce you. Okay. The rain, the park and other things, you're gonna have an orchestra now. Oh, okay. We're we're kids. We'll, we're sponges. We'll we'll do anything. Yeah. Um, uh, okay, now you have a hit. But when the rain, the park and other things came out in 1967, we were more or less veterans by then in terms of the pursuit. Okay. We weren't veterans, but at that point we're going, okay, another record's coming out. We didn't have any kind of excitement in terms of the overly thinking, oh, we just gonna have a hit record, gonna have paper. So by that time it had become so routine that it was just the next pursuit and it was never back then you could get a yes and fail and get another yes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I think that's today. Good luck with that. We got two more yeses. So I have to give kudos to the third. Yes. Because today we'd have been said no to the first time, and you may have never heard from us, but back then we got a second and a third opportunity to get this right and to get the team right. Cuz it's not just your song, you know, it's everything around it, the team, the people, the company, the, just the timing, the oh, so much in that equation.

Paul Cowskill (00:44:52):

And, and the other thing is, is that we were kids and, and what this whole deal, all these records and all that business stuff, it was bringing to us, man, we were going to Barbados, <laugh>, uh, you know, have chicken on chicken in a basket on the

Susan Cowskill  (00:45:04):

Absolutely. We're going to resorts in Missouri. Right. Speed

Paul Cowskill (00:45:08):

Boats. So we don't care, you know, Uhuh, so long as we keep making these trips, everything's groovy. You know,

Louise Palanker (00:45:14):

When you think about your career now though, and any decisions that are made, you're a part of that decision. So when you does it cause you to look back on your childhood and think, okay, the adults are in one room planning what I'm gonna be doing, and I don't hear about until someone puts me on a bus and sends me there. Does was that something that you feel kind of resentful about or that you never had any, any say in the relationships? Well, and the decisions. Well,

Bob Cowskill  (00:45:38):

You, you get used to it. You're so young. There's not resentment. It's, this is just the way it is. Your young brain Yeah. Is absorbing this as long as Yeah. It's a as long

Susan Cowskill  (00:45:48):

And we, and also what you're saying, you know, having to just all of a sudden you're leaving. Well, we asked to go, so how it happens, who cares? We're going

Paul Cowskill (00:45:57):

Well since we were babies, we had been being told what was going to happen.

Susan Cowskill  (00:46:01):

Yeah. It's no big deal.

Paul Cowskill (00:46:03):

We never had power.

Susan Cowskill  (00:46:04):

No resentment. Yeah. It's

Paul Cowskill (00:46:05):

Okay. But we, uh, we, we were kids. We didn't expect to have the power until we

Bob Cowskill  (00:46:09):

Got, it was only years, years and years later we heard and, and looked into, especially through your documentary, Louise, what was going on in that adult room over there, you know, that we were kept out of. Now maybe had we been a part of, of it into that level, into that intimacy, yeah. We could have spoken up and the older ones could have said this or that, but believe me, we were under our dad's thumb. We didn't say squat about him. Mm-hmm.

Louise Palanker (00:46:35):

M no, I knew you never, you never would have. That was not the dynamic. I don't

Susan Cowskill  (00:46:39):

You weren't weren't actively resentful. It just wasn't like that.

Louise Palanker (00:46:42):

Yeah. No, but I mean, looking back on it, because your dad was kind of like destroying relationships that you guys had built up with your talent,

Paul Cowskill (00:46:50):


Susan Cowskill  (00:46:51):

Oh, sure. That was never fun to hear about. You mean how he fucked up all of our Ed Sullivans and all that? I mean Yeah, but I don't, I think other people are more resentful actively in general than we are. Honestly. God, I do. Yeah. You know, because it's, it's, I I'm more upset over injustice to other people than I am myself.

Fritz Coleman (00:47:11):

That's a very healthy attitude. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (00:47:13):

It really

Fritz Coleman (00:47:13):

Is. Hey, I don't know if it's your story Paul or Bob's story, but you, you were born and raised in Newport and breaking into the famous gear of the Newport Folk Festival. Talk about that. Yeah.

Paul Cowskill (00:47:24):

Okay. So yeah. Um, it, it was Newport, Rhode Island, and we were navy brats. You know, I i we were still, you know, living that dream. And, uh, so the Folk Festival came every year and we were all very excited about it. They'd have all these workshops all over the streets that we roam normally, you know, and people sleeping on the, on like Memorial Boulevard that used to blow our minds. We used to go like looking at Christmas lights just to look at all the people camping out. And it was, it was so great. It was a great time and it was so free and the music. And so the, the folk festival was in town and, you know, we were local. So, you know, they had the, the, the fence that they had protecting the people that didn't pay from getting in were those little ocean sled fences. You see Dunes, <laugh>. So we would just go up, step on that fence, you would hold it down and the whole neighborhood would come on in <laugh>. And so me and Bob were sitting there when, uh, when Dylan, um, went to electric, you know, I mean, I was much younger than Bob. I, a couple of years younger and I was just thinking, man, we've snuck in here. It was awesome. And, you know, all this stuff's happening. What are

Bob Cowskill  (00:48:30):

They booing? What are they booing? <laugh>?

Paul Cowskill (00:48:31):

Why are they booing? Because I, I must have missed something. And I didn't,

Bob Cowskill  (00:48:35):

I didn't know he, Hey, we didn't know why anyone was booing to us. We're we're, we think Dylan Electric is, it is fine, but look, we're ki we're just young kids. Yeah. We don't know why they're booing. We're not purists. He's not true to his vo music roots. What are you talking about? I don't even know what that means at that age. Right.

Susan Cowskill  (00:48:53):

That's hilarious.

Paul Cowskill (00:48:54):


Fritz Coleman (00:48:55):

Was that the year with, uh, with, uh, Hendricks and, and, um, that, that was like the big year, right? Was

Bob Cowskill  (00:49:01):

That the same year? Hendrix wasn't there, but that's when the Folk Music Festival five, it, it evolved into where we're now we're gonna see the Love and Spoonful, we're gonna see, you know, it it, oh right. It ended up being other acts

Paul Cowskill (00:49:15):

And the band's gonna be the band because they were the band that night.

Susan Cowskill  (00:49:18):

<laugh> <laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>. Exactly.

Paul Cowskill (00:49:20):


Bob Cowskill  (00:49:21):

Know, it's just like jazz fest in Orleans, you know, there's jazz for sure. Anywhere you wanna find Sounds like it. But guess what else there is? Yeah. There's Bruce Springsteen, spring Stage

Susan Cowskill  (00:49:31):

<laugh>. They're booing for him too. Bruce, Bruce

Paul Cowskill (00:49:34):


Louise Palanker (00:49:35):

Does anyone have a, uh, coolest, um, or most interesting fan encounter story?

Paul Cowskill (00:49:43):

Hmm. Well, it doesn't include me except as, as somebody trying to relieve the tension. But we were doing these milk commercials back in the day, and so all of a sudden we had to do a milk commercial show. You know, we had to do a show in their place and then if we had a show close, and so, I don't know, did we go in a helicopter? I don't know. Something happened, but John got, somebody got John's tie mm-hmm. <affirmative> and was strangling him. You know, the girls were just reaching and reaching and men, they caught it. And I seen that and I am just smacking people, man. Cause

Susan Cowskill  (00:50:17):

<laugh>. Okay. I have another

Paul Cowskill (00:50:18):

One just that was, I

Susan Cowskill  (00:50:20):

Have one that matches that. Yeah, we're at the half shell. Paul, where is that place? You were just talking about it.

Paul Cowskill (00:50:26):


Susan Cowskill  (00:50:26):

Okay. Okay. And there's like 30,000, 25, I don't know, cuckoo amount of people. Many. And, and we are trying to get to our station wagons. Is that right, Paul? Yeah.


Okay. And all I know is that we are, we're being escorted, but that girls are breaking in and Barry and John are, I'm in front of John and then John and Barry, and then I see mom, and then these girls start getting Barry's hair and John's hair, and I see Mom come unglued Oh. And drops her purse and starts speeding <laugh> crap out of these girls. And the cops are like, whoa, whoa. Like, while we're getting there and she's smacking them, smacking them and pushing the guys in the car because these chicks were literally trying to What? So yeah.

Louise Palanker (00:51:19):

Yeah. There's just some sort of insanity that comes over people where you just love something so much, you're willing to murder it in your own hands.

Susan Cowskill  (00:51:27):


Bob Cowskill  (00:51:27):

Much going all out with Bill Medley. I mean, <laugh>, I get it.

Fritz Coleman (00:51:32):

So are they, how, how are they, are they booking you guys, uh, in a post pandemic personal per perfect world now where the Happy Together tour is gonna go back out and do dates or anything like that?

Susan Cowskill  (00:51:44):

Um, I believe that there's, there's always hope, um, of later in the fall. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, I believe there's still some on hold. We're in a constant holding pattern. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, all the Go ahead, Paul.

Paul Cowskill (00:51:57):

Oh, I was gonna say they canceled June and then they canceled July because two West Coast shows dropped out. And usually our July is a, is a, is a short, it's a couple of weeks and it's all West Coast. So if a couple of shows drop out fiscally, it's just not reasonable for them to make that journey. Business. You'll lose,

Susan Cowskill  (00:52:14):

I can't do it. Mm-hmm.

Paul Cowskill (00:52:15):

<affirmative>. Yeah. So, so we know that July, as far as the normal July is, is out. And then we heard, Bob, I don't know if you heard it, but July's, end of July, we're gonna open the Happy Together tour at the Ryman.

Fritz Coleman (00:52:28):

Oh, that's huge.

Bob Cowskill  (00:52:30):

I mean, that's, today's plan can be tomorrow's cancellation as Correct.

Susan Cowskill  (00:52:34):


Bob Cowskill  (00:52:35):

And all they're doing is absolutely, they're just basically moving down the covid timeline as it's dictated to us. It's a venue driven issue because the venue needs to be comfortable. Believe me, everybody on the tour, the groups and the band and the musicians, we're ready to go. Okay,

Paul Cowskill (00:52:52):

Everybody, everybody needs to get a vaccination. Yeah,

Susan Cowskill  (00:52:55):

We're ready. Return

Paul Cowskill (00:52:56):


Susan Cowskill  (00:52:57):

The scene. Vaccinated up. Yep.

Louise Palanker (00:52:58):

Yeah. Cause you guys are all gonna be on a bus together and there's just, everyone wants to feel safe.

Paul Cowskill (00:53:02):

Everybody has to.

Susan Cowskill  (00:53:03):

So if everybody wants to go back to life, man. <laugh>.

Fritz Coleman (00:53:05):

Yeah. Well, before we go, I wanna plug your podcast. Yeah. It's relatively new. No, but it's, it's all the energy that you brought to us today. Oh. And, and the key that I, I think you said this, Susan. Uh, we're not, we're not, there's no bitterness, there's no anxiety from our earlier experiences. We empathize with people who have real problems. And that's the sense you get when you listen to this podcast. It's fantastic. You got great. Oh, are

Susan Cowskill  (00:53:35):

You killing me,

Fritz Coleman (00:53:35):

Baby cry? No, you got great. I, I love the old show Business Road anecdotes and people you interact with and other bands that are famous and that's my era. So you

Louise Palanker (00:53:45):

Guys are like your own, like sibling rat pack,

Fritz Coleman (00:53:48):


Louise Palanker (00:53:49):

They're just super fun and talk about, talk about the learning curve of getting baby boomers up to speed to podcast via Zoom.

Susan Cowskill  (00:53:57):

I can tell you right now that these, these two guys were,

Bob Cowskill  (00:54:00):

I thought a podcast

Louise Palanker (00:54:02):


Bob Cowskill  (00:54:03):

I thought we were doing a blog for like two weeks. I can't even know the

Paul Cowskill (00:54:06):


Susan Cowskill  (00:54:07):

I thought so. And Bob is our leader, you guys, Bob is Professor Bob. He was always the studious one. And, and, and Paul is also very good at these things, but I personally, I know nothing. And, and, and, and Bob would like, you know, he'd say, okay, now look down there at that screen. Now go push that. Now go up there, go over there. I would not know anything about this. And Russ, you know, Russ, he has to be home half the time. I've gotten it now where I can do it myself. I feel pretty good about it,

Bob Cowskill  (00:54:35):

But that's way later. But it was rough early in the timeline. It's, it's the Paul, I can see you, but I can't hear you. <laugh> or

Susan Cowskill  (00:54:41):

Susan, I can see you. He wants to hold something up.

Bob Cowskill  (00:54:44):

Yeah. It took two weeks for us, the three of us, to finally zoom in at the same time and get there. Exactly. I mean, it just was so overly and it probably wasn't complex, but you know, it's just a new technology. It's a new world. And look, look how I got, I had to go ask what's a podcast? What's about, and they said, the best answer I got was, it's today's radio. I said, yeah, fine. Huh? I'm good. Yeah, I'm ready to go.

Susan Cowskill  (00:55:06):

We love it though. We have so much

Fritz Coleman (00:55:08):

Fun doing it. No, you can tell. That's the whole point. It's, you really do

Susan Cowskill  (00:55:11):

Such a glass.

Fritz Coleman (00:55:11):

You will smile and you'll, you'll meet some interesting people from early rock and roll.

Susan Cowskill  (00:55:16):

Y'all are sweet. This was fun.

Paul Cowskill (00:55:19):

We wanna go, uh, video, you know, cuz every time we do our show, we know it's only audio, but I dress up with my ties.

Susan Cowskill  (00:55:26):

We all do. Yeah. We have backdrop

Paul Cowskill (00:55:27):

Screen screens going so in case they can be seen at another date. I don't know how it works, but we're trying to

Fritz Coleman (00:55:34):

Put it on YouTube.

Louise Palanker (00:55:35):

It just takes one person to hit record on your Zoom call and then you've got a recording of it and you just upload that to, to YouTube.

Susan Cowskill  (00:55:42):

Guys, I wonder if allow

Bob Cowskill  (00:55:43):

You that. Is that legal? We do, we do video Zoom recordings of every podcast. We have them. Every one.

Paul Cowskill (00:55:49):

Yep. That's, we're

Louise Palanker (00:55:50):


Susan Cowskill  (00:55:50):

They're hilarious. Yeah.

Louise Palanker (00:55:51):

They all exist. You just need with's with, with a Gmail account. You have YouTube, a YouTube channel, and you just, now that you've gotten over this learning, learning, uh, I

Susan Cowskill  (00:56:01):

Was just, can I say you just bumped up the curve little

Louise Palanker (00:56:03):

System, right? It's like you have to have a layer of knowledge upon which to uh, build other layers of knowledge. Yeah. So you're at this point, you're four or five podcasts in, you're ready to now take those videos that you've did, that you've done and recorded on Zoom and get, and I can help you get a, get a, a YouTube channel. Just call it The Cows Hills and start uploading your old

Fritz Coleman (00:56:23):

Conversations. And as Weezy will tell you from hard personal experience, if you're gonna load any of your songs up or anybody's songs, you need to be prepared for YouTube to flag 'em and take 'em down. Yeah.

Susan Cowskill  (00:56:34):

We've been

Bob Cowskill  (00:56:34):

Told and we've had, we've experienced that already. Yeah. Um, you know, when it's our song, it's no problem.

Paul Cowskill (00:56:39):

Right? Yeah. But other people's songs, we can only play so many seconds before it becomes that, you know, apple. Right.

Louise Palanker (00:56:45):

Right. So sometimes they put it up with a, like a widget that takes you to iTunes to, or Apple Music to buy that song. And sometimes they just mute the song. It's always different for, it's different for whoever owns the copyright. It's a, it's so, it's a, it's a gamble. That's why podcasting is safer. They're not kind of scouring for those algorithms or to find you those song patterns that they'll, they immediately yank it down. But now YouTube, when you're uploading there, there's a new step in the upload process. And when it gets to step three, it's actually checking to make sure there isn't any content in there that you don't have the right to post. So there're ma YouTube's making

Fritz Coleman (00:57:20):

Easier. So sing your songs. They can't do anything about that.

Bob Cowskill  (00:57:23):


Louise Palanker (00:57:23):

What's that? Fri

Fritz Coleman (00:57:24):

Sing the songs live. They can't do anything.

Susan Cowskill  (00:57:26):

That's true. Right, right.

Paul Cowskill (00:57:28):

Drew, get there.

Fritz Coleman (00:57:30):

Love you guys. You did a great job. Oh,

Susan Cowskill  (00:57:32):

We love you guys. Thanks for being paid final. Sorry, final

Louise Palanker (00:57:35):

Thought. What? The final thought is, you guys have new music coming out? Oh, Pauly.

Paul Cowskill (00:57:38):

Yeah. Uh, I was just gonna say, I'm, I'm probably, this is just my final thought. I'm probably gonna cry when we finally get to sing on stage for the first time. I'm probably gonna, since we haven't, you know, I'm gonna cry.

Susan Cowskill  (00:57:50):

I'm gonna cry with you.

Louise Palanker (00:57:52):

<laugh>, your audience is, is gonna be crying.

Fritz Coleman (00:57:54):

Susan, you're

Bob Cowskill  (00:57:55):

Doing gigs, the rain in the park and other things. I'm not gonna have time to cry. I'll be singing while you guys, you cry.

Susan Cowskill  (00:57:59):

What'd you say, Fritz?

Fritz Coleman (00:58:01):

You're doing gigs in New Orleans though, like, uh,

Susan Cowskill  (00:58:03):

Very random. Yeah, but I am, I'm doing one in a week or so, but, you know, yeah. I do what I I'm doing what I can here. We're starting to get back up and running here for that. Yeah. Um, and all really nicely safe and stuff cuz I, I couldn't do it. I'd be a wreck. But yeah. You know,

Bob Cowskill  (00:58:20):

I would like to say from the council's, congratulations on Media Path that you, your podcast is awesome. We love your podcast. Oh, I, oh yes. I love those conversations. I think podcast podcasting is awesome.

Louise Palanker (00:58:31):

It's, yeah, it's a new frontier and we're pioneering. So Bob, we, where and when can people find new cow sales, music, Bobby?

Bob Cowskill  (00:58:38):

Well, we've recorded Rhythm of the World, which is 11 new songs and nine acapella songs. We've redone our hits, ACAP and all that business. And then it's gonna be about seven to 10 bonus tracks from our past because we have another opportunity to put some of these songs in front of people. So it's a big project. We're done recording, mastering, and mixing it. Now we have to face, uh, the artwork and what is it gonna look like, packaging it. We have to, uh, cater to about marketing into 900 pledge, mu pledge music. People who, uh, you know, we got 872 science CDs to get out. Yep. I'm thinking Autumn at the earliest. I'm saying Autumn at the earliest, just being a realist. Autumn, probably for rhythm of the world.

Louise Palanker (00:59:19):

Rhythm of the world. It's coming.

Bob Cowskill  (00:59:21):

But we're doing a lot. We'll be on tour and doing the podcast and you can find us. We'll keep everyone posted.

Louise Palanker (00:59:27):

And the Cow Cells have a Facebook page, uh, cow sales. You can follow them there. And they have their podcast and they have a website, So there's all kinds of places that you can stay in touch. Councils wanna hear from you and we wanna thank them for being with us. I'm gonna read

Bob Cowskill  (00:59:45):

Thank you guys.

Louise Palanker (00:59:46):

I'm gonna read our closing credits. It's a pretty exciting portion of the show.

Bob Cowskill  (00:59:51):

Thanks person. So happy to see you, you guys. Thanks Christian wheen thanks for your patience all, you're all looking great. Thanks. Thanks, Alex. We would love Alex. We love you. We love you.

Louise Palanker (01:00:03):

Okay. Here come the closing credits. We would love for you to join us online on Instagram and Twitter, where we are at Media Path Pod and on Facebook where we are. Media Path Podcast. You can find full episodes with all kinds of bonus visual content on our YouTube channel Media Path podcast. We would love to know what media you've been enjoying. You can contact us at our social media or email us at media path podcast I wanna thank our guests, the Cows Hills, Bob, Susan and Paul Cows Hill. Thank you. Our team includes Dean. Oh, thank you. Our team includes Dina Friedman, Francesca Demond, Alex Gilroy, John Maddox, Sharon Beo, bill Fiac, Thomas Hubble, and you. Our theme music is by me and John Maddox. I am Louise Lanker here with Fritz Coleman. And we will see you along the media path.

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