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Episode 118

What Really Happened to Radio and Broadcasting in the Streaming Age

Episode  118
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We welcome radio royalty. Two kings, baring gifts of knowledge, experience, stories and maybe some myrrh. Guy Zapoleon, President of Zapoleon Consulting, is a veteran of almost 50 years in the business. He’s programmed and consulted major radio stations including KIIS-FM in Los Angeles, Z100 in New York and KZZP in Phoenix.

Jhani Kaye is the longest running Program Director of a music station in the country’s largest market, Los Angeles, working with KOST-FM for 23 years.

Guy and Jhani tell us what drew them to radio, how they started, what they’ve learned, the hit records they launched and, within an era of streaming media, what is to become of radio!?

We get way into the fun and fantastic heyday of radio replete with big personalities, big hits and bigger hair. The promotions and publicity stunts, the 10-year music cycle, what the future looks like and so much more.... plus, our co-hosts weigh in with their own radio background stories, Fritz having started his media career on the air, on a ship in the Navy and Weezy as co-founder of Premiere Radio Networks, now part of iHeartMedia!

More Path Links

Guy Zapoleon

Guy Zapoleon’s 2021 10-Year Music Cycle Update

Music Cycle Updated, Part 1

Music Cycles, Part 2

Sr.- Netflix

Spector on Showtime 

Check out this episode's newsletter! Click on the image below.

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Louise Lanker (00:00:04):

Welcome to Media Path. I'm Louise Palanker.

Fritz Coleman (00:00:07):

And I'm Fritz Coleman.

Louise Lanker (00:00:08):

This week, we're traveling back down an audio entertainment path to that time before podcasting, when your radio was your go-to listening choice. And it did not just entertain you, it also informed you shaped your musical tastes, your sense of humor and your understanding of humanity. Your radio station of choice afforded you membership in a community of folks in your town who listen along with you apart, but together, a community of people who live where you live and love what you love. Radio ruled for decades, and so many of our memories are formed around our favorite stations, the events we attended, the music and personalities we came to know, and the comfort in knowing that they were there whenever we turned that dial. Today on the show, we've got two radio giants who rose to the tastemaking ranks of program director, radio consultant, and beyond. They are guys, Napoleon and Johnny K. Guy, and Johnny will join us shortly. But first Fritz.

Fritz Coleman (00:01:01):

Oh, right. I can't wait to talk to these guys at one time. I'm trying to think. One of them was my boss at one time, but I don't know which one. Mm. I'll I'll figure it out. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I, I wanna talk today about a truly moving documentary on Netflix called Senior. It's Robert Downey Jr's project to understand his father in the waning years of his father's life. Robert Downey Senior was an Avantgarde filmmaker who made his mark in the sixties. His films were called Absurdist. I think his most famous one was Putney Swope, which was a combination of underground film and the Marks brothers. He was also a cocaine addict, and it was a real sixties bohemian type father, allowing Robert Jr to smoke weed as a preteen. Now, I'm a huge Robert Downey Jr. Fan. One of the first movies my sons and I ever worshiped was Chaplain, which in my opinion was Downey's Master work.


I followed a struggle with drugs as well, and was fully prepared to hate his father for allowing him to do drugs at such a young age. Until I saw this movie, Sr. Had great regret at having allowed Junior to become so familiar with drugs at a young age. And although Junior could have harbored great resentment against his dad for that, he didn't. Robert Sr. Got Clean, eventually became a devoted caretaker to his second wife, who died of a terminal illness, and eventually went on to try to help Robert through his drug problems. Junior worshiped senior. There is so much love in this movie Love between Robert Junior and his father. Robert Junior's love for his own son, Exton, and all of his family. He even includes Exton in meetings with his dad when his dad was very close to death. Hard for a kid to see, but the kid gained so much wisdom out of that experience. It was really a gift that he gave his son to allow him to experience that. That's all I'll say. There's a lot of love. It will make you reflect on your own relationship with your own father and ask if you have the ability to forgive your father for his flaws. The way Robert did, his father, there were cameos by Norman Leer, Paul Thomas Anderson, Alan Arkin, and Sean Hayes really loved this movie. I was surprised. I

Louise Lanker (00:03:07):

Loved it too. You know, my dad didn't make as many absurd movies, but some of our super eights are pretty, pretty far up

Fritz Coleman (00:03:12):

<laugh>. Well, your father was a hero. Tell their in two lines. Tell the story about what your father did as a soldier in World War ii.

Louise Lanker (00:03:19):

He was on the front lines with the Normandy invasion in, in, through the march across Europe. And

Fritz Coleman (00:03:24):

Then, and he was a Jewish man who went and discovered one of the camps and, and, and, and freed people from the camps

Louise Lanker (00:03:30):

Because he was a first generation, uh, Jewish American. He spoke Yiddish, and they used him as a translator when they found women on this, uh, Auschwitz death march. And my dad wrote letters to all the addresses they had memorized and reconnected them.

Fritz Coleman (00:03:46):

It would be impossible to imagine what was on his heart when he discovered all those things. It was, you and I did a lot of study of your dad's military life, and it was very impressive. So,

Louise Lanker (00:03:55):

Right. We, we used his journal to map. We, we printed out maps and we mapped his, his journey A across Europe, sleeping in trenches, anti-aircraft, gunner <laugh>, uh, and my dad was 18 and 19 years old, so we asked these children to save the world, and they did. That's, um, but I'm gonna talk about a different movie. Oh, PS before we move off senior, I'm mildly obsessed with Exton, who's maybe 10 <laugh>, but he embraces such a soulfulness and a true understanding of his

Fritz Coleman (00:04:24):

Why is beyond his use.

Louise Lanker (00:04:25):

<laugh> unbelievable. Watch it just for Exton. Uh, so my pick is Specter on Showtime. It's a four-part docu-series, chronicling events surrounding a chance encounter between Hollywood actor Lana Clarkson, and a legendary music producer, Phil Spector, which resulted in a fatal shooting that ended one life and warped the legacy of another. The art that Specter created is more easily separated from the flawed man than say that of Bill Cosby or Woody Allen, because this was specter's design lacking the voice of charisma to command a spotlight. He created music where the song is the star to do, run, run, be My baby. Then he kissed me. You've lost that love and feeling on and on, and on, and on. This series peels back the layers of one of Hollywood's most tragic crimes to paint a more human portrait of Lana Clarkson and the deeply disturbed man, convicted of her murder.


The documentary treats Lana as a person, rather than framing her within the title Be movie actress. She was a working actor in Hollywood, but her accomplishments and the quality of her character are not even the point. She did not intend or deserve to die that night. Phil Specter was a troubled genius who wielded guns. He threatened people. He intimidated and manipulated to gain power and control. He was a loner who was desperately lonely, and he is known to have exerted any means necessary to overpower, dominate, and restrain women at the trial, which was televised. It's clear that he had the shakes. My guess is that he did not mean to shoot Lana Clarkson just scare her into staying. But he'd been waving guns around for years. His hands were no longer steady. And when you consistently taunt danger, flirt with fear and dare tragedy, you have opened the door to doom.


Phil Specter's Wall of Sound is monumental, but it did not give him license to entrap people. Terrify them and endanger them. At some point, a loaded gun will fire you will find Specter on Showtime, and I don't know if you've seen it, Fritz, but I have. Yep. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the, um, the art created by troubled geniuses and how, you know, we should respond to it. If you're feeling guilty about tapping your foot to Michael Jackson or watching a Bettie run, remember that there are many wonderful performers, writers, musicians, actors, et cetera, who work on everything we see and hear. And I feel that art, that the art is here, it has been created. And so it's meant to be enjoyed. I don't know how you feel

Fritz Coleman (00:06:40):

About it. I agree. The big argument now, the, the big argument for a few years about Woody Allen has been, can you suspend your disbelief watching a Woody Allen film now knowing what you know about him? And he was a hero of mine, and I can't, I feel like I have been, um, I, I have been cheated on, you know? Right. But that's a little different. That's a little different because he's a character in his movies, and it's different. But that's a great, uh, a great comment. And also, last week we talked to David Leaf, who's drilled as deep as anyone on the life of Brian Wilson. He was disturbed in a lot of ways. Uh, but he, the flip side of that was this incredible genius who incidentally looked up to the producing talents of Phil Spector a lot. He copied some of his, uh,

Louise Lanker (00:07:22):

Right. But Brian is, is gentle. I

Fritz Coleman (00:07:25):

Mean, no, I know that. I'm, I'm not saying, I'm not comparing that side of him.

Louise Lanker (00:07:29):

And do you remember when we had Liz Astrof on the show? And, you know, she, her mother was danger

Fritz Coleman (00:07:33):

Certifiable. Yeah.

Louise Lanker (00:07:33):

Danger, dangerous. Yeah. But, and I said, you know, I talked about mental illness. And she just stopped me. And she said, I don't wanna, I don't wanna hear about mental illness. It doesn't give you an excuse to be horrible. I mean, there are lots of mentally ill people who are lovely, and we make choices in our lives. I mean, it, yes, specter goes into detail about what he encountered in his childhood. It was horrific. It was a very, very ugly childhood. His father committed suicide when he was nine. His mother and his sister were constantly screaming at each other. He heard a lot of violence. He heard just a lot of really en enraged behavior. And so he was trying to control his life. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But he went

Fritz Coleman (00:08:14):

Over, John Lennon said he, he was the only guy in show business he was ever afraid of. Wow. Because he flashed guns around when he was in the recording studio. Dark, dark, but, you know, some great sixties music. And now we're, it's holidays. So we're listening to the Ronettes every 10 minutes. But Johnny will apologize for that.

Louise Lanker (00:08:30):

But like I said, it's great music. So I say,

Fritz Coleman (00:08:33):

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yes. No,

Louise Lanker (00:08:34):

I Inspector's Christmas album, Darlene Love. Go for it. It's awesome. So now we have some gentle geniuses right here with us. Yes, we do. Guys, Napoleon is the president of Napoleon Consulting. He has written books and radio industry articles. He has programmed K Z Z P in Phoenix, K H M X in Houston, and consulted hundreds of top 40 in AC radio stations around the world, including KF in Los Angeles, Z 100 in New York, W B M X in Boston, and K s TP in Minneapolis. Guys, an accomplished guest speaker and a veteran of close to 50 years of programming, winning radio stations and consulting successful stations and research businesses. And we have Johnny k, Johnny k was most recently programmed director at K Earth 1 0 1 and 94.7, the wave in Los Angeles. He is the longest running radio program director of a music station in the country's largest radio market, having programmed Coast 1 0 3 0.5 for over 17 years. And then consulting the facility for a total association of 23 years. He has been OnAir talent program director, a station manager, a consultant, a general manager, and we wanna welcome Johnny And Guy. I, I would like to start by

Fritz Coleman (00:09:39):

Asking. That was impressive.

Louise Lanker (00:09:40):

Yeah. I mean, these,

Fritz Coleman (00:09:41):

Johnny's been my friend for years, and now I'm, but, but now finally I'm impressed with him.

Louise Lanker (00:09:44):

<laugh>. Yeah. Now you're gonna be a little intimidated. So, but remember, they're just people. Fritz <laugh>. They're just <laugh>. So would you each tell us a little bit about your, your initial love for radio and how you got in? Cuz it's a difficult career to enter, and they tell you if you're a kid and you love radio Oh yeah. You'll, you know, you'll never, you'll never make it. It's too competitive. So how did each of you fall in love with radio and, and get into it? We'll start with Guy.

Guy Zapolean  (00:10:06):

Well, mine's a little long, so if you <laugh>, I can, uh, mine's gonna take a few minutes, but that's fine. I can, I can go into it. So, um, you know, I, since I was 14 years old, um, actually 13 years old, and I was living in law in, uh, in Stanford, Connecticut. Um, and I wanted to know what the cool kids did to, to hit the girls. And my friend said, well, I'll tell you what you need to do. You need to listen to Cousin Brucey on 77 W A B C. And I said, really? Yeah. So I started listening to, uh, to radio and I, I just fell in love with, with music and, uh, you know, and, and, and I fell in love with what, how, how songs became hits. And that followed me for, you know, what, whatever it's been 50, 50 something years, I've been fascinated with the hit music process. Um, and, uh, you know, um, I actually never thought I was gonna be in radio. Um, I actually thought I was gonna be a psychologist. Um, and, uh, and a and, and that's part of this long story. That's how I got into radio because I, I got a lucky break from my mom's boyfriend and, uh, and that helped me get into the business. So I can go more into that if you'd like.

Fritz Coleman (00:11:20):

Wow. That's all right. A lot of psychology and programming a radio station <laugh> in dealing with talent and picking records.

Guy Zapolean  (00:11:26):

Well, I'll tell you because, uh, you know, there's, as they say, and you were just talking about it, there's a thin line between genius and insanity. And unfortunately, I don't, only we have enough of the insanity in our business today, because most of the really creative people are on that fine line. Um, but, but having degree in psychology helped me manage those people. Cuz I had a lot of those folks working for me. And that's part of, part of my success is that I had great people working for me, me that were a little on the edge. So,

Fritz Coleman (00:11:55):

Uh, absolutely. I, I, I wanna say that Johnny was my boss for a while when I did the weather for Charlie Tuna, one of the great, uh, California weather personnel, uh, news per, uh, radio personalities. Who, who I ironically, I don't know if you know this or not, I ironically listened to when I was in the Navy, cuz he was, uh, you know, played the 33 and thirds on Armed Forces Radio. And then I turned out doing the weather on his, and you were my boss. And, uh, you've been my wonderful friend for many years. And you came up with a phrase, K big one. Oh, forecast. Yeah. How about that? What? Did I see a dime from that? No, legend. There's a lot of creativity in me that you don't know about, but I have to say, so I have to say something to Guy because radio's a small family. Well, you know, generally, and I worked with two people you worked with, Bob Hamilton was my program director at W I F I in Philadelphia, the first major market radio station. Wow. And when I was a DJ there, Steve Rivers was the afternoon drive DJ at that town. Amazing. And you worked with Steven and, and, and, uh, and, uh, Bob as well, right? I worked with Steve too. Absolutely. So didn't you really? And me too. And you too. <laugh>. I thought I was pulling off something fantastic.

Guy Zapolean  (00:13:03):

That's how I met Johnny, by the way, is Sue Bob Hamilton. Right.

Fritz Coleman (00:13:06):

He was a lovely man, A great, uh, uh, great program

Guy Zapolean  (00:13:09):

Director. Yeah. I wouldn't be where I am today without Bob. I mean, that's kind of my story. And I, as I, as I get into it a little more, I can tell you, but, but having people around you that believed in you and that were your mentors, and I, I honestly think it's harder, much harder today. I don't know if you have that kind of spirit as much as you used to have during our time coming through the business. But I mean, I'm telling you, I was so lucky to have the people around me that I have. Yep. People like Bob Hamilton, um, my bosses and the different stations that I worked in, like Mickey Franco at Nationwide. Um, you know, anyway, I had, I had some great mentors and I, that's why, that's why I was blessed to have a, a good career. Um,

Fritz Coleman (00:13:50):

Go ahead. Go ahead.

Guy Zapolean  (00:13:51):

And anyway, going back, and this is, this is gonna lead into Charlie Tuna Fritz. Okay. Um, so my dad wanted me to get in the clothing business because my dad was a successful, um, successful, uh, Shama

Fritz Coleman (00:14:05):


Guy Zapolean  (00:14:06):

Shama, exactly. Schmatta salesman. Exactly. Um, the rag business. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So he was, uh, um, he, he ran two, two stores that were very popular in the sixties and seventies. Uh, Judy's and Nobbies, which were a young women's clothing stores. And he was the, uh, the vice, the president of Nobbies and the, and the, uh, you know, vice President Nobbies and, uh, uh, vice president of Judy's and the president of Nobbies. Anyway, he wanted me to follow in his footsteps. And, um, and when I was growing up and I was going to Birmingham High School in the Valley, um, now Lake Balbo Birmingham, um, my dad and, and I lived in this, this, uh, apartment complex called the Balbo Biltmore. And a lot, lot of, lot of pretty famous people lived there. Um, and one of the people was this guy named Norm Prescott. And Norm was a very successful, um, uh, DJ on W B Z Boston.


And, and he, um, he started Filmation Associates, which was, um, the Arches, it was the Groovy Gooley, it was Fat Albert, it was all those, um, all those cartoons. And, um, and he would give me, he still got, he still got records from labels. He still got, um, uh, the trade magazines, billboard and Cash box. And I collected both of them from him. And, um, but he had talked to my dad, and my dad said, this is just a tough business, isn't it, norm? And he says, yeah, he's a very lonely business. You move around a lot. And my father was convinced I should not be in radio. So I, um, I was obsessed with K H J, um, I listened to K HJ 24 7. I l I specially listened to their countdowns, uh, on Wednesday night with Sam Riddle and, uh, and the boss, the boss 30.


And, and, um, and, um, you know, and I collected the charts. So, um, you know, my dad just said, you know, would come in and he would give me a hard time. And he would say, there was a, there was a song that I loved the time by named Bunny Siegler. It was called Let the Good Times Roll. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And my dad would come in and, and I would be just going crazy here in the song. And my dad would say, Bugsy Siegel, Bugsy Siegel cut this crap out. The books skid. You know. So, um, I, uh, so anyway, he just did not think I should be in radio. So one day, you know, I, I had, um, you know, was also a contest player, uh, which made me always kind of have a soft spot for, for kids that were, you know, the contest players and the kids on the, on the phones calling the radio station.


So, um, so one day I said, I'm, you know, I, I, I'm gonna get in and I'm gonna call in and I, cause I wanna win this car. And my dad just laughed. And I said, okay. And I, so I called in and the jock on the air was Charlie Tuna. And so he's a lovely man. And I, I, so I, I, I, uh, I, I got in, I was, it was 24 qualifiers. They were actually taking a qualifier an hour back then, and there were 24 qualifiers. And I, they were gonna do the drawing. But the only problem was I was going to summer school cuz I had flunk, I had flunk chemistry. So I had to go to Taft. And uh, I'm there at eight o'clock and I got my little satchel and I got my little transistor radio and I'm going, oh no.


And they're, they're saying, and the drawing for the Maverick a day will be coming up in just a second. And I'm going, oh no, come on, come on. And the teacher was the guy, one of the teachers who had flunked me at Birmingham High. And he was the darn teacher in Taft in my chemistry class that I'm repeating. And he's coming down the, down the, the aisle with books. And I'm listening and he goes, and the winner of the Maverick a day is good. And Napoleon, what are you doing? Throw? What are you doing? What is that radio? And I threw the radio in my satchel and I had no idea that I, you know, I didn't know what had happened. I went, I, I think I heard my name <laugh>. And I looked at somebody and I said, I think I heard my name. And the guy, oh, you're full of shit. Napoleon

Jhani Kaye  (00:18:23):


Guy Zapolean  (00:18:23):

So, so anyway, I'm sitting there and I'm like, I think I won. I think I won. And my best friend Bart Holiday is, is was coming by cuz this class was in recess, uh, in the back of the, the, uh, of the classroom. And I said, Bart, call my sister and my dad, I know they listened. And he, he says, I'll be back. And he comes back in just a few minutes and he had called my dad and my, and my sister answered, and she told him the answer. And he comes back, looks in the window and he goes, guy, you want a car? What?

Fritz Coleman (00:18:55):

That's great.

Guy Zapolean  (00:18:57):

Great. I know what, what? And it was, and Charlie Tuna says Charlie too. And I remember, you know, they said, this is what Charlie said, he says, I just, I just picked this guy's name out of a hat, this kid's name out of a hat. Um, you know, uh, he was my last qualifier and he was the winner of the Maverick a day. So, um, at that point my dad goes, you know what guy? Maybe that's a sign this is gonna to,

Fritz Coleman (00:19:20):

Maybe your business

Guy Zapolean  (00:19:21):

Is pretty cool. <laugh>.

Jhani Kaye  (00:19:23):

Yeah. What year car was that?

Guy Zapolean  (00:19:26):

1969. I

Fritz Coleman (00:19:27):

Wanna talk about radio promotions, because that used to be huge and Johnny k was the king of Los Angeles Radio promotions. But I don't wanna talk about that yet. I want you, cuz you have a radio origin story, which is very similar to a lot of starting DJs. You started in a small town, Hemet,

Jhani Kaye  (00:19:45):

California. Yeah, yeah,

Fritz Coleman (00:19:46):

Sure did. Which I, I, I think you'll agree with me, is a great way to learn who you are on the air, but also to learn the taste of like middle America out there. Am I right? Talk about your beginnings.

Jhani Kaye  (00:19:56):

Well, I was just a, a sophomore in high school and, uh, and you want a car? Uh, no, no, no car. Okay. No car. And not like guy tractor, but, uh, no. Okay. My best friend, uh, was hanging out at the radio, the local radio station in the evening hours and answering phones for the guy and getting hamburgers and whatnot. And I started hanging out with him. And I, I enjoyed being around it. I thought it was really something to see all this technology and the way it all happened. And, you know, the idea of a transmitter and towers was just amazing to me. Yeah. But, uh, the day came when, uh, they, well, they gave the local high school 15 minutes, like 8 45 on a Sunday morning to read high school menus and <laugh> bulletins and

Fritz Coleman (00:20:44):


Jhani Kaye  (00:20:45):

Yeah. Anyhow, I didn't care anything about that. But it's Sunday morning I get this phone call from this girl who was the host of the program. She lived up in the Idle Wild, above this Hemet Valley mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, she goes, I can't come down. It's snowing up here. You have to do the show for me. I go, what do you mean? I have to, I don't even know who you are. She goes, well, well you are in, uh, you know, I I was in drama and whatnot. You can do this. J here's the combination of my locker. I've, it's 15 minutes. I've written everything. There'll be an engineer. Just go out there and read this stuff. Well, I go in the locker. I didn't want to do this cuz in my mind, motion pictures was here, television was here, and radio was way down there. Wow. Um, anyhow,

Louise Lanker (00:21:30):

That's such la thinking. <laugh> in Buffalo. In Buffalo, New York. This is radio, right?

Fritz Coleman (00:21:35):

That's right. Anyhow,

Louise Lanker (00:21:36):

Danny Nth the

Jhani Kaye  (00:21:37):

Top. Yeah. I go in, she's prepared five minutes of copy, not 15. And there I am when my ass hanging in the wind for 10 minutes. And I remember driving away in my little red corver guy, a corver <laugh>, as I'm driving away in the rear view window, uh, uh, mirror. I see three towers, the radio station towers. I go, I never want to do that again. Oh, I was humiliated. Wow. It took about a month.

Louise Lanker (00:22:06):

Did you not know how to pronounce chili? K Carney.

Fritz Coleman (00:22:09):

<laugh>. I still

Jhani Kaye  (00:22:10):

Don't. But,

Fritz Coleman (00:22:10):

Uh, you know what? But what a great way that, see, that's the way you should have a job. Don't have any time to overthink it. They throw you in there at the last minute and you had to improvise. And that's how you had, but

Louise Lanker (00:22:18):

Why, why do you think you had failed at it?

Jhani Kaye  (00:22:21):

I don't

Louise Lanker (00:22:21):

Know. Because your voice was changing <laugh>. Yeah.

Jhani Kaye  (00:22:24):

It, it was just a rough experience. And, uh, anyhow, the general manager had been listening, and it took him about a month to find out who I was really called me in. And here I am, I'm a sophomore in high school, and every day after school, I'm going on the air. They hired me. Wow. And they paid for my first class radio license. Wow. Which was at the Ogden School, uh, in Huntington Beach. You

Louise Lanker (00:22:49):

Must have had something. That's

Jhani Kaye  (00:22:50):

Awesome. It was, it was so much fun.

Fritz Coleman (00:22:51):

My first job in radio You was so great was, uh, I, I was in, uh, the Navy for four years and I've worked for Armed Forces Radio and Television, which gave me my career. The beautiful thing about that was I was a DJ and a newsman and a weatherman. And, uh, regardless of how bad you sucked

Jhani Kaye  (00:23:10):


Fritz Coleman (00:23:11):

You would never get fired

Louise Lanker (00:23:13):

Because they can't, you, you're on a boat. You're

Fritz Coleman (00:23:15):

On a boat, what are we gonna do? We're not gonna helicopter you. No. As long as your shoes were shining, you said, sir. No, sir. You never lost the job, regardless of how hideous your presentation was. <laugh>. And so, and, and I I look back on it now and I realize what a gift that is to not have to worry about being fired at your first broadcasting job. And so I was out, uh, the, the day after I got out, I made, uh, air checks when I was in, on our little quarter inch tape recorder. And, uh, I sent it around and that's how I got my job at wifi. I was hired, hired as the music director Wow. At W Y F I. And then they put me on overnight, and then I was in the middle of the day. And that's how I began my career. So I had the gift of having a job that I could not be fired from. And there's something to be said for that, although it probably wasn't healthy for me not to be able to

Louise Lanker (00:23:59):

Be fired <laugh>. Oh, I think it is. It's the same as wearing wearing pads. You're, when you're skating, you're gonna do more tricks, you're gonna challenge yourself. Or if there's a net when you're doing your highwire act, you know, Fritz, how you do every weekend when you do your high wiring. Oh yes. If there's a net you try, you're more adventurous, you try more things. Am I right, Garrett? You try more things when you're wearing pads. So it was, that was the safety to fail and it was still

Fritz Coleman (00:24:23):

Let's Well, yeah, I mean, and plus, I mean, people learn, you know, your first job is where you learn your on-air personality. You learn the technology and all those things. And that's a question I wanted to talk to you about, guy. It seems like those early days, like Johnny's starting radio, where you go start for no money at a small station, read these soybean report at 5 45 in the morning and eventually work your way up. But it just seems now with consolidation and syndication and small markets now can place syndicated programming. It seems like there are fewer and fewer places for young talent to get us start. Do you guys agree with that

Guy Zapolean  (00:24:58):

1000000%? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>?

Fritz Coleman (00:24:59):

Yes. Same

Guy Zapolean  (00:25:00):

Here. 1000000%.

Louise Lanker (00:25:01):

So let's, I I, yeah, go ahead guy.

Guy Zapolean  (00:25:03):

I'm just gonna say it's funny, I actually addressed, uh, I have a good friend who used to be in Los Angeles Radio, Michelle Sanso. Um, and she actually teaches classes for the Newhouse School in Syracuse. And I had to do a presentation, and that was one of the questions was where do we get started today? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and, and, and I, and I ta and I reminisced about what we had at K C Z P in Phoenix. We had a research department. We had full-time air, you know, air shifts. We had weekend air shifts. So, and, and there were places you could actually work at the radio station like I did at Careth, initially doing traffic and continuity or some other job and still be able to do weekend shifts to hone your craft. So it's just so much harder today, you know? And, and, um, and, and that's really a lot of that is due to consolidation.


Um, and, you know, and unfortunately it's become such a big business today that, you know, they, when when the telecom bill hit in 96, um, the amount of money that was paid for the radio stations were, was 10 times what it had been a year bef than a year before. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So people became afraid of what they used to have on every executive's desk. You know, back in the nineties there was a plaque that used to say, fall in love with the risk. Risk went out of the business because people were afraid to make mistakes. And frankly, that's part of what my job was at, at iHeart, was to kind of make sure that people did the right thing and didn't take too much risk. And yet my heart was breaking because I had a real soft spot. And I would talk to some of the people, people there, I said, you know what, you know, unfortunately you can't do it. But, you know, because that's the people are afraid of taking risks. But, um, you know, so it's, it's a shame. Anyway, Fred, shame.

Louise Lanker (00:26:54):

So what are the numbers, what are the numbers now, you know, uh, concerning listening habits, uh, how many people are still listening to the radio every day? And how many people are just exclusively li listening to streaming content podcasts?

Guy Zapolean  (00:27:07):

Well, it's still, I wanna say I, I don't have the figures in front of me, but it's li number one, radios still the most listened to medium period. Okay. Okay. Okay. People listen to it. They're more people listening to it. Okay. So cu you know, the amount of people, you know, people that listen to at least once during a week, there's a bigger cue for radio than there is for streaming or anything else. But the problem is, it's the time spent listening to these other devices like streaming, um, you know, TikTok, whatever. That's a lot more. And the median age for radio right now is 50. That's the median

Jhani Kaye  (00:27:50):

Age I'd like to point out too. Okay. Because when I left the industry, uh, they let love to talk that 90% of America every week listens to radio or you, or you, you're exposed to. That's, that's such a misnomer because the way ratings were taken then by the Nielsen Company, you wore this device or you kept it on your purse or whatever. And this was a, a device that could pick up a pretty quiet signal that all broadcast stations were enco encoded with. Oh. So they, they weren't listening. If I went in the Macy's and they were playing the coast Christmas music. Right. My device simply says, I'm exposed to it. It is not listening if I'm paying a cashier and having a wonderful conversation with Very interesting.

Louise Lanker (00:28:38):

Go ahead guys.

Guy Zapolean  (00:28:39):

I, so, so I've got all this stuff in the back that was gonna talk about, but you know, since we're talking about it, this is more of a casual conversation. I'm gonna bring up one of the things, and this is exactly what Johnny talked about. I I mentioned the death of a thousand cuts that radio did to itself. That was the first death. The when, um, there was a problem in 1986 where Arbitron, which was before Nielsen doing the ratings, had decided they wanted to be more accurate in the, in the Col ram committee, which was the design committee for the diary, decided to put lines between the day parts. And what happened, I know Johnny remembers this, what happened was, all of a sudden the listening dropped by like 40% because they were being more accurate. And people really didn't listen all day. But they would write their lines through the diaries saying, oh listen all day. Well, that was crap. So the same

Fritz Coleman (00:29:38):

Thing happened to TV with the people meters. As soon as the people, people meters came out, it was a more accurate depiction of who was viewing and they dropped off precipitously. Yeah.

Louise Lanker (00:29:45):

Right. But however, however you're measuring it, the truth remains that technology has changed the way we receive. Yeah, yeah. Content. Yeah. And it, and it has changed what's available to us. And you can curate the music that you want to hear and the programming that you want to hear. And you're not limited to what happens to be on the radio at that moment. Yeah. So do you think that radio could have done more to get ahead of that curve and present their programming options in, in more of a on demand fashion? You know, you can listen to this fun radio show that's about your community whenever you wake up. Why

Jhani Kaye  (00:30:19):

And Guy? Yes. Yes. I know. We're on the same page here. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, why would you, uh, the Thousand Cuts. I love that line. Why would anyone choose to listen to a service where you have to sit through seven commercials in a row Right. When you can go to a stream and not have that happen. Right. Right. Uh,

Guy Zapolean  (00:30:42):

Why? And, and, and go ahead and get anything you want on demand, Johnny. Yes. And not have to wait through songs. You don't like to hear songs you do

Jhani Kaye  (00:30:50):

Like Yeah. The music director who used to put together the program and the music logs for each disc jockey was making along with the program director, was making choices about what we're gonna rotate these 10 records faster than these, uh, 20 others. You don't need music program for you. And now it can be done, even if you want that done, it can be done through technology. Mm-hmm.

Fritz Coleman (00:31:13):

<affirmative>, Pandora and all

Louise Lanker (00:31:14):

That. It just seems to me that an algorithm, the answer was algorithm, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the answer was right in front of the music industry and the radio industry. And that was to have a device that when it was playing a song, you could press a button and own that song instantly. When you're listening to a commercial, you could press a button and have that content come to your inbox instantly. You can use the visual element that is now available. You're not gonna look at it when you're driving. But if you're doing something around the house and you hear a song that you love, just press a button. Right. And everyone would've paid into that and everyone could've made money. But I, it felt like the music industry and the radio industry, everyone was just trying to hold onto jobs and pretend it wasn't happening. Cuz the old model, they, they were boss. They, they were the boss of that model, and they didn't wanna see

Guy Zapolean  (00:32:00):

That. They thought they were to use an old line from, from, uh, 2008 during the recession. And the banks, they were, they thought they were too big to fail.

Fritz Coleman (00:32:09):

Too big to

Jhani Kaye  (00:32:09):

Fail. Right. And now I have two. They

Guy Zapolean  (00:32:11):

Really did.

Louise Lanker (00:32:12):

And it was a failure of an imagination too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that they couldn't picture it failing. Go ahead Johnny.

Jhani Kaye  (00:32:16):

Yeah. I have two automobiles. One does not have AM radio because it's an electric vehicle. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And the second one, I have to go, not one, not two. I have to go down three menus to get to AM if I ever want to listen to an AM station. And in my opinion, humbly, uh, the only really still successful radio formats where people actually can tune to the radio and not an app are talk radio

Fritz Coleman (00:32:45):

And news. And that's how I am. Right. Guy, that's how am saved itself. I mean, they found, they Yeah,

Guy Zapolean  (00:32:49):

It's talk radio app. Absolutely. And sports. But

Louise Lanker (00:32:51):

It's gotten Sports Studio, but talk radio has been hijacked by extreme conservative right wing. Yeah. Kind of broadcasting that's isn't maybe the healthiest dialogue.

Fritz Coleman (00:33:01):

And, you know, as it turns out,

Guy Zapolean  (00:33:02):

I just had, I just had my dinner, so I don't wanna lose it. <laugh>

Jhani Kaye  (00:33:06):


Guy Zapolean  (00:33:06):

So please don't bring up Rush Limba or something. Oh,

Fritz Coleman (00:33:09):

No, no, no, no. Uh, but, but the, the, the one sort of mystery in what we're talking about is commercials. I mean, I listen to some radio station TV's, the SA is guilty. The same thing. I mean like a nine minute commercial set. It's crazy. The amount of commercial, it's insane. But, um, I, I wanna say this though. It's not always the commercials that are the irritant. And I think an example of that is no Sure. The serious, uh, XM inability to completely, uh, dent the terrestrial radio market. I mean, they don't have any commercials on there, but, but people still don't listen to it. Why is that? Yeah.

Guy Zapolean  (00:33:45):

I, I think, I think, you know, I don't have the facts. Maybe Johnny does, but I think Sirius XM is growing. Um, I will tell you that I spend most of my time when I'm listening to radio is listening to Sirius xm. So

Louise Lanker (00:33:59):

Do I Same. Same here. They're

Guy Zapolean  (00:34:00):

Great. Yeah. I

Fritz Coleman (00:34:01):

Really, I look, cause I get the news channels on there. I

Louise Lanker (00:34:03):

Hello. Of Peter Noon and, and News. Oh, they've got some great shows. Absolutely.

Guy Zapolean  (00:34:06):

I'm listening to Morning Joe on Serious.

Jhani Kaye  (00:34:08):

Absolutely. Shock on Tomm listening

Louise Lanker (00:34:11):

To Yep. Yeah, exactly. So it's, it, it doesn't lose anything. You get the information and it, it also seems to me that they, they should, they should allow you to, like, when you're listening, when you're, you know, music is such an impulse purchase that the moment you're hearing something you like, you should be able to press a button and, and download it and have it, like, if you're walking through a store and you hear a song, I mean, I know they have whatever that app is called where, where you hold it up and it recognizes a song. But that's a lot of shaza. Oh,

Guy Zapolean  (00:34:37):


Louise Lanker (00:34:37):

Shazam. There should be like one screen in your life, like your phone where you just tap a thing and that's like, remind me that I liked this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even if it's just an ad for something that you might wanna buy for someone's birthday present. Like, just remind me that I liked this, that we're losing opportunities

Fritz Coleman (00:34:53):

To selfie. That's a spec spectacular idea. You should patent that

Jhani Kaye  (00:34:57):


Guy Zapolean  (00:34:57):

Really? It was, it was discussed at one down. I mean, so I'm gonna, let me just run through a couple of things that kind of go along what you're talking about. You know, that shit, Steve Jobs was asked to put an FM radio chip in, in, in the iPhone, and he said, radio is yesterday's news. I'm not gonna put it in. Wow. He refused to do it. And, and the, and the radio industry, um, kind of just kind of, I, I guess they must have just given up. Um, and you know, outside of I, of, uh, outside of, uh, what is it, um, TuneIn or iHeartRadio, you know, that's where you can listen. You can stream radio stations, but you know, it, the radio business just did not invest itself in becoming part of the mobile phone, which is the fifth appendage for, you know, for 200 million maybe more Americans. Right. And, you know, and, and billions around the world. So it's just ridiculous that Okay. Radio never did it. And, and it lost its chance to stay in the future. So, Johnny, you're gonna say

Jhani Kaye  (00:36:04):

Something. Yeah. My understanding is I listened to Leo LPO a lot again on talk radio about Yeah. Like that computers, he he's my expert. Yeah. That according to Leo, all of our iPhones do have the chip. They refuse to turn it on. Right. Oh, wow. It's in here. Yeah. It's not turned on. Wow.

Guy Zapolean  (00:36:24):

It says iPhone six was when they started putting, I think putting the chip in iPhones. But they refuse. But you know, the, the Apple has continued to refuse to turn it on, but

Louise Lanker (00:36:36):

What they're, what they're missing is that, that, and maybe this will come back around, what they're missing is that, uh, group Listen, experience that opportunity to be Yes. Listening to something at the same time as everyone else. And to be taking part in something collectively. And that Right. We might come back around to where there there is a renewed, uh, interest and enthusiasm for that, that kind of, uh, group think that happens when you're all experiencing something together.

Jhani Kaye  (00:37:03):

I, I think early

Guy Zapolean  (00:37:04):

That what made the hits, go ahead, Johnny

Jhani Kaye  (00:37:06):

Early radio. Real early radio where you saw the black and white photos of the family sitting around the Packard Bell. Yep. <laugh>, you know, that was that shared experience. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, when Gaia and I were programming, I think a big part of, of the service we provided, because we knew radio was number one in car listening. That was where it was listened to the most. We were keeping people company. And I always saw that as our service. That's why it was always, if you worked at a Johnny K station, it was never, I've got a book to give away. No. We've got a book to give away. Not call my producer. Call our producer. You know, and it was always, it was never 78 degrees outside right now. No, you are with them. It's 78 degrees right now.

Louise Lanker (00:37:56):

Right now it's, it's a collective. Um, yeah.

Guy Zapolean  (00:38:00):

Interesting. Uh, I'm trying to think of some other things that are along this line. Um, 12. And by the way, 12% of, there's Edison has this great service called Share Avir, where they do research every year. And, and it, and streaming one up 1% streaming to radio is only 12% of all the listening to radio. Only 12% in the modern world with mobile phones. That's insanity.

Fritz Coleman (00:38:27):

My boss took me out to lunch about 20 years ago. My, one of the 43 general managers that I worked for <laugh> at Channel four, Los Angeles. And he held up his phone and he said, and his reason for taking me to lunch was he wanted to talk me into providing more services, like doing like a, a one minute weather forecast for the Channel four phone app. So he was talking me into doing more labor for nothing, which is the only reason he took me to lunch. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And he held up the phone and he said, you don't understand. This is everything. This is where everything is going, TV, movies. I said, you are full of shit. There's no way somebody's gonna sit down and watch a movie or a TV show another phone. And I'm glad I didn't make a bet cuz everything is about this,

Louise Lanker (00:39:15):

But Right. But I love what guy's saying because imagine if we could watch Live TV easily or listen to live radio. It, it, it does everything else. Why doesn't it let us do that? Because things like sports where you, you know, you're at the game but you can't quite hear the loud, you just wanna I just wanna listen to what's happening right now. The news, the sports, the what you know the music. Yeah. I wanna listen to what everyone else is listening to. Yeah.

Jhani Kaye  (00:39:39):

But if you hear a new song, yeah. This is my criticism of music radio today cuz I'll go get a haircut and hear it playing on the speakers above me. They're only promoting some sponsorship deal they have for an upcoming concert or event. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they didn't tell me what that song was. I just heard and I have no

Louise Lanker (00:39:59):

Idea. There's no back announcing.

Jhani Kaye  (00:39:59):

And in terms of talent, you know, guy, you and I are focused on talent. They're not excited about playing the song anymore

Louise Lanker (00:40:07):

Or who the act is.

Jhani Kaye  (00:40:08):

If you listen to shotgun Tom Kelly on the sixties, he's awesome. Yeah. That's, he's playing when he plays, uh, cry Like a Baby by the Box Tops, it's like the first time he's ever played the song and he's so excited and presented to you

Fritz Coleman (00:40:22):

And you get a digital readout of the name of the song on your radio in your car, which you don't get when it's just listened.

Louise Lanker (00:40:28):

Yeah. And one of, one of the things that I think could make a lot of money is remember the, uh, like, uh, sometimes there's a channel on your cable service, which no one's getting cable anymore, but if it's playing music, it shows you some facts about the group. Some pictures of the group. Right. And then they could fill that space with ads cuz you're looking at the TV to see what group is this? What year was this? Who are the members, right. Who are they doing now? You'll look And then they could have ads. So there's so many places they could be making money that, that they're not

Jhani Kaye  (00:40:56):

Guy. Wouldn't you agree that, uh, television is making the same mistake that radio made? It tends to be a couple years behind all the radio mistakes. Sure. I mean, I can't watch a weather forecast. Sorry, afr. Its, well no, sorry. You're, they're out.

Fritz Coleman (00:41:10):

That's why I get out of the

Louise Lanker (00:41:11):

Business. Rich is on a phone checked outta

Fritz Coleman (00:41:13):

This conversation. No, I have to answer this. It

Jhani Kaye  (00:41:15):

Is terrible. They just channel Yeah. Pardon me. Channel five here in town just built this extravagant set. It's beautiful. I'd like to see it instead of the one third at the bottom telling me which attorney to use if I have a car accident.

Fritz Coleman (00:41:32):

Well they, what you're talking

Jhani Kaye  (00:41:33):

About is

Fritz Coleman (00:41:34):

A business in survival mode. Listen, broadcast television is doing anything to elicit commerce now because, and I'm sure a guy has an opinion about this streaming content is killing network primetime television. Yeah. It's throwing everything off. So these guys, you know, they, they have a bug over the five day forecast. They have a bug over that. And this beautiful attractive weather person is brought to you by,

Louise Lanker (00:41:57):

There's just gonna be a barcode over

Fritz Coleman (00:41:59):


Louise Lanker (00:41:59):

Space. Like, you know, I just want this product. Uh, but let's talk heyday. I I don't know if we can solve radio. So let's talk heyday cuz you guys have stories.

Fritz Coleman (00:42:08):


Louise Lanker (00:42:09):

And I wanna hear, for example, Johnny, what, what records are you, how many times have you played a Michael Bolton record? Are you keeping, are you keeping track? Cuz I think there's an award for

Fritz Coleman (00:42:19):

You. Come on, you were a coach. You had the launch. Michael Bolton records.

Jhani Kaye  (00:42:22):

Yeah. I love Michael Bolton.

Louise Lanker (00:42:23):


Jhani Kaye  (00:42:24):

Quick Michael Bolton story. Yeah. My husband Ken Phillips here for it. He got a job working for Diane Warren, the famous song one My Wow. Okay. And the way he got it, I took him to an event one time for radio and Diane happened to be there and Kenny's hanging with her and he and uh, uh, she says, what kind of music do you like? He goes, I love that Laura Branigan was playing. Ah. And she goes, I wrote that, I wrote that song. And he goes, no you didn't. Wow. <laugh>. And a few days later he, uh, she invited him to her office and he became employee number three with Diane Warren.

Louise Lanker (00:42:56):

That's how I know Kenny is through Diane. Oh,

Jhani Kaye  (00:42:59):

I'm sure you do. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman (00:42:59):

Yeah. Cause you had an office in her building, didn't you? At

Louise Lanker (00:43:01):

One time. Yeah. She was a I could hear her writing her songs. <laugh> her piano was That's right. And then she'd call me and play it for me. Like, what do you think,

Jhani Kaye  (00:43:08):

Uh, guy, you'll enjoy this. So she's at 65 65 Sunset, uh, Boulevard, which was the old RCA Records building. Mm. Kenny and I have offices at 64 64 Sunset, one block down. Okay. And I'm sweet. A 900, she Suite 900. And the Hollywood Post Office always makes mistakes. And I would get her mail to deliver to me and I'd open it up of course. And I would call Diane and say, I have a royalty check here for $960,000

Louise Lanker (00:43:42):

<laugh>. Would you mind endorsing it for me?

Jhani Kaye  (00:43:44):

<laugh>? Oh my God. I'll send someone over right

Louise Lanker (00:43:47):

Now. She was there quickly. Yeah, yeah. If I know Diane. Yeah. So, so yeah. So what records did you break? Uh, and who, what, what are you excited about having maybe introduced people to?

Jhani Kaye  (00:43:59):

Um, God, the sixties and early seventies, I, I loved introducing people to all the records we played. Um, just like Guy, he has a couple of things on his wall behind him there. I can see, yeah. See Nick Fleet works, but Guy probably like me, has a, uh, public storage locker with a bunch of these things stacked up in there that you don't even look at any longer. Uh, I, I just, uh, I enjoyed, there was a magic to being on the radio and I enjoyed giving people what they wanted. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and I think radio got away from that. They got to a formula of how to play records instead of, this person's called me four times tonight for this record and if I have the ability to play it, but I'm not going to play it. Yeah. You know?

Fritz Coleman (00:44:47):

Well, guy mentioned a great radio promotion earlier that kept kids listening to the radio even when they were in class, when they were <laugh>, when there were no earbuds. They had to hold the thing up to, but, but you were the master of Los Angeles Radio promotion. Give us, I'll give you an example of a radio promotion I did that almost killed me. And then, but, and then I want to hear some of your great examples because that was the fun of being a DJ in the radio. So I worked at W K B W in Buffalo, New York guy, you know that it's a great 50,000 Watts station. Very historic. And I was a DJ there when the Love Canal incident happened, which was this massive industrial poisoning of a whole neighborhood. And my boss at the time, Sandy Beach, you know Mike know Sandy, he was a program director.

Guy Zapolean  (00:45:31):

I certainly heard the name. Yeah,

Fritz Coleman (00:45:32):

Yeah. Uh, said, Hey, I got a great idea for a promotion. We'll go to the bank, we'll get a whole stack of hundred dollars bills and we'll go up to the Love Canal and we'll hand out a hundred dollars bills to all the poor people who were having a tough time in the Love Canal. Well, just being in the area, you could lose a liver or something. So we had to wear rubber boots and we're going up to the Love canal and we're knocking on doors, Hey, we're from www here's a hundred dollars. Nobody answered because they had all the back get waited. The town <laugh>. Wow. They were ordered to get out. We only gave away like three $100 bills cuz nobody was there. So it was a great idea for a promotion. And we had pre-pro promoted it on the air, which was really embarrassing. But anyway, you've done some very successful

Jhani Kaye  (00:46:11):

Radio. When I was in El Paso, we hired a new morning man and we didn't announce who he was. He came to town, we dressed him like a bum <laugh>. And there was a central park in El Paso surrounded by hotels. And we had him, we gave him a stack of hundred dollars bills and he was handing out hun $100 bills to people. And Word got around and there was crowd. The police eventually show up, but we told him act like he was nuts. So he got locked up in, in, in the hokey really <laugh> and, uh, <laugh>. So we had, we had every ncast and we had every newspaper in town covering this. And we waited 24 hours to bail him out and then bailed him out announcing he was the new morning man on our radio station. Wow.

Guy Zapolean  (00:46:56):


Fritz Coleman (00:46:57):

Wow. That's a great promotion. That's great. You so could not do that. Now. That's very creative.

Guy Zapolean  (00:47:01):

Wow. Do you remember, do you remember Paul Drew? Of course. Of course. You remember Paul Drew? Yeah. And he was a, he was a great mentor of mine, but he wasn't terribly well liked by a lot of people in the industry.

Jhani Kaye  (00:47:12):


Guy Zapolean  (00:47:13):

He was a very tough man, very kind man behind the scenes, but a very tough man to work with. And, um, uh, they had a contest on K H J and um, it was the Lieutenant Colombo, uh, instead of Lieutenant Colombo contest. And you had to solve the crime and it was a celebrity who had committed the crime. So you had to figure it out. They give out clues and a guy named Ken Levine, I don't know if you know, I know

Louise Lanker (00:47:39):

Ken. We know Ken.

Fritz Coleman (00:47:40):


Guy Zapolean  (00:47:40):

A great writer. Ken Levine was Beaver Cleaver, he and another radio station. And he, he was a, he could be a real smart ass. So he, so he got, he got into, he got in and they say, okay, um, you know, whoever Ken Levine, who was the celebrity criminal and what was his crime? And he said, Paul Drew for killing King j <laugh>.

Jhani Kaye  (00:48:03):


Fritz Coleman (00:48:03):

Wait a minute. Ken Levine was your, uh,

Jhani Kaye  (00:48:06):

We had, we stayed in the same dorm at ucla. Yeah.

Louise Lanker (00:48:09):


Jhani Kaye  (00:48:09):

Really? Yeah. And, and, and one time I'm at a radio conference in Virginia and I'm watching a black and white television. And the Emmys happened to be on, and they say accepting the award for screenwriting for, uh, mash is Ken Levine. And I'm looking going, that's, that's the guy I went to class with.

Fritz Coleman (00:48:27):

I mean, he worked on Cheers. He worked at a whole bunch

Louise Lanker (00:48:29):

Of stuff. He wrote a great book about his childhood that I didn't read that. Yeah, no, I, it's

Guy Zapolean  (00:48:33):


Jhani Kaye  (00:48:33):

Brilliant. And by the way, Ken Levine would come my first radio job in Hemet, a station that signed off when the son went down. Ken Levine's grandmother lived in Hemet and he came out and would look through the window at me. Wow.

Louise Lanker (00:48:47):

Oh, so you were a star to Ken Levine. Oh, that's so cool. Vice versa. I wanna hear heyday stories. Guy. What records did you break or do you feel like you'd like to take credit for breaking?

Guy Zapolean  (00:48:57):

Um, well, probably the one that I'm probably known for is, um, in 1988 when I was at K C Z P in Phoenix, um, we had, uh, we had gotten to the place where I had some really amazing people working for me. A guy named Kevin Weatherly, who was a program director of Kroc. I had a guy named Gene Baxter who was Kev, who was, gene was Kevin and Bean, who was the Kroc morning show. I think

Fritz Coleman (00:49:27):

That's He's still in the air, aren't they? And they do it from somewhere in the northwest? Not anymore. Oh no,

Guy Zapolean  (00:49:31):

He not anymore, but, but for years he was, he's in England now, but anyway. But Gene was a very, really talented music director and a guy named Todd Fisher worked for me as well, who went on program in a couple different places like Milwaukee and Minneapolis. So we're sitting there and we got to the place where we, we didn't care what the record labels would give us, we would say it's gonna have to prove itself to us, because if it's not, if we don't think it's good enough and our ears, our collective ears don't think it's a hit, I'm gonna wait till it's, you know, top 20, maybe even higher on the charts. So one of the songs we refused to play was a matter of trust by Billy Joel. I said, you know, it's okay, but we, you know, we drove the Columbia record rep, Bob Conrad Crazy.


Why you playing it? And I go, well, when it's top 20, we'll think about it. But I don't think it's that great a song. So what we would do is each week we would go through and look at everything that was coming out, whether it was an import from, you know, or it was an album cut, like a Phil Collins album cut that was, you know, was, was gonna be big and you know, wasn't gonna be released. But whatever we thought was the best song of the week we were gonna add. And one day we were sitting there and I go, well, is there anything else? And Gene and Todd said, you know, there's this one song that, that my friend Sherman Cohen used to play when I was working in Tucson. That's a great song. And I said, what is it? And I, and he said, it's Red, red Wine.


And I said, well, I played that back in Tucson. And he goes, yeah, but did you play the right version? I said, what do you mean? He goes, well, that was right after the disco demolition or a couple years after the disco demolition. And nobody wanted to play black music. Nobody. Wow. So, you know, in Tucson I was told not to play, you know, you can't play this. It's too black. And I'm going, oh my God. Oh God. And I'd come from Los Angeles, Tucson was my first programming job. Long story short, we played the short version because the label was told to take the little red, red wine, you feel so fine. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that that little part was removed from the original version. So in 1988, we're struggling trying to figure out a song to play. And I said, you know what? That's a great song.


Why? I couldn't, I didn't realize that, that's why it wasn't a hit. So we brought it back, started playing it, and nobody in in the world was playing it as a current song. But, um, I'd learned lessons from listening to K H J and they played album cus all the time, and they didn't follow the rules. And, you know, so, so we started playing it and the song, you know, started working on our weekend, uh, party patrol show. And then it started getting requests. And so we put it into regular rotation and I started getting calls from people like Scott Shannon, who would say, Kent, what are you, whatcha are you beating the bushes for these songs, man, or, you know, buddy Scott, my friend in Chicago would say, you know, where's this song coming from? I said, all I can tell you is we have our own call out department. It's huge. And they, you know, we luckily we had a good enough reputation and when we br started a record, it became a hit.

Fritz Coleman (00:52:34):

They used to break records in a different way. Uh, I mean, I, I was a music director at wifi for a year and they would look at the charts for the smaller markets and see stuff, stuff would bubble up out of the smaller markets. Right. Then when it, then they, if it got to a media market, they'd make it as an ad and then it would work its way up the charts. And, and doing record research used to be me sitting down with a gallon of coffee and calling every, uh, record store in the area and doing like a five bullet point list. And how do, how do they do it now? How do they even do this? It's clicks now, isn't it?

Guy Zapolean  (00:53:09):

But by, by that, by the way, that when I got my job, when I, I came back to Kirth in 1978, Bob said, Hey, you know what kid I want to have, I want to get all the record stores and I want you to start doing a tabulation of the biggest records. And that's what I did too, Fritz. Oh

Fritz Coleman (00:53:24):

My God. There were more record stores where you were than there

Louise Lanker (00:53:26):

Were where I was. Johnny, did you have a Red,

Jhani Kaye  (00:53:27):

Red one? Actually, there is one song I'm proud of. Oh, okay. And the artist gave me credit for it. Not once Yeah, but twice cuz we got it re-released and was into the Night by Benny Marona. Wow, you did

Louise Lanker (00:53:39):


Jhani Kaye  (00:53:40):

I don't know if it was me, but because I was at a major radio station, we had propellant

Louise Lanker (00:53:46):

Behind it. I think it, I find it very, very interesting when a song will out of Nowhere reenter the charts 15 years later. The, these are the, they're like phenomenon that are just something is in the, the universe and the atmosphere. And, and when I was, I, so I was writing the, uh, a countdown show for Premier, and I know you had to find little factoids about all the artists. So Benny Marona was a difficult nut to crack. So we made it like, into this whole mystery saga, like, where is he? And uh, and I wrote a newsletter, I don't know if you got my newsletter, but I wrote a newsletter every week that went out, premier News and World Report. And it was always like, you know, we're going in search of Benny Mars. And when we finally found him, the guy lived in Woodstock and he didn't even know cuz he didn't have a phone.


So like months went by and it was like, Benny, someone's knocking on the door, <laugh>, you know, you have a hit record again. And he was just like, wait, what? And uh, and so by the time we interviewed him and I, I showed him all the newsletters. Like he thought it was hilarious. He was the nicest, most outgoing guy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he just didn't, he didn't know why this happened or it wasn't like the ghosts like, uh, like, um, the Bobby, uh, Hatfield song. It wasn't like, like that where it was on a soundtrack. Right. It was Melody. Yeah. Do you, so it was you Johnny,

Jhani Kaye  (00:55:02):

I I definitely was one of the first <laugh>.

Guy Zapolean  (00:55:04):

We, we, we brought it back a second time. Yep. We brought it back in 1988. And, and Ju and Benny is, was so grateful. He's

Louise Lanker (00:55:12):

Such a dog. And

Guy Zapolean  (00:55:13):

He actually tracked me down and, and when I went to Houston a couple years later with, you know, with another song and he was just, he was absolutely effusive and, you know, and energy, you just don't get that from Artis all the time. And he was so grateful for things that we were able to do to help him. Johnny,

Fritz Coleman (00:55:28):

There was a documentary recently about, um, within the last five years about that, uh, Latin artist, Latin American artist that, uh, wa was, had like a moderate one hit situation in the United States. Rodriguez. Yes.

Louise Lanker (00:55:44):

And it was a hit, he was a big hit in South Africa. He

Fritz Coleman (00:55:46):

Was a big hit somewhere and he had no idea. And then when somebody told him about it, then he created this whole thing where he was doing tour and it became wildly successful. And it was a situation very similar to that. He had no idea how successful he was.

Louise Lanker (00:55:58):

I think that doc, who was this, uh, I think it was called Rodriguez. I can't remember his first name, but what was the name of the movie? It was, it was Best Doc that year.

Fritz Coleman (00:56:05):

Yeah. It, it was really wonderful actually. But it was, it, it was, that's that, that

Louise Lanker (00:56:10):

The record label didn't even tell him that he was selling units in South the South probably they were keeping all his money. They were just like, we can't find him. And the music industry does that stuff a lot. Do you have it searching for Sugarman? Searching for Sugarman. Searching for Sugarman, that's right. Are they recommend

Fritz Coleman (00:56:25):

It's on Netflix?

Louise Lanker (00:56:26):

I think so. What kind of stuff would labels do? Like you guys have an interesting history and relationship with labels, like record labels trying to get you to play. Because at the time, kids, if a song, if you didn't know a song, you couldn't go in and ask for a song. So Airplay was everything. So what kind of things did folks do from labels that would come and visit you to, in order to try and convince you that you pull

Fritz Coleman (00:56:50):

Out of Water Cash

Jhani Kaye  (00:56:51):

Guy, you, you were the music director of K Earth. So both guy and, and ourselves over a coast. Each station had a music day for us, it was typically Monday. I think LA was typically Monday. Right. And so between maybe 11 and uh, two, I would see people and Guy over Kruth might see people in the afternoon on Monday. Right. And they would do everything from dance on your desk to the song to, uh, but I don't remember any really baiting back then. We didn't even get promotions that much. We might get some concert tickets to give away. Yeah.

Fritz Coleman (00:57:26):

Well there, that was after the Paola scandal anyway, so everybody kept a tight reign on that.

Louise Lanker (00:57:30):

But they had ways of getting their point across. Like how many firstborn babies do you own? <laugh>? Probably <laugh>.

Guy Zapolean  (00:57:38):

I mean, you know, usually when, you know, I mean there were people like myself and I'm sure Johnny that would take chances on songs, but the normal way people promoted songs was they used charts they used, especially back in the radio and records days. Um, they used, um, they used performance at radio stations. So they, it's number one at this station, it's number five with a bullet at this station. So they would build a case for you, you know, just almost like they were, you know, in the

Louise Lanker (00:58:08):

Court. Or they'd say, we can bring you this other popular artist for an event if you play this

Jhani Kaye  (00:58:13):

Show. The quickest way to get a song played Yeah. Was to get it played on your competition. Mm-hmm. Right. So personal relationships were always highly important.

Louise Lanker (00:58:22):

It's like dating, you know, just go out with somebody, make him jealous.

Jhani Kaye  (00:58:27):

And Guy, I don't know if you what your, your method was, but when someone would come in and there were those record promoters who would beat you up if you weren't gonna play you. You sure. They basically called you nuts. Yeah, I would, I would always say, whoa, time out. This couldn't be a nu you, you're working for this label. There's going to be another release. We have to work together in the future. Let's not blow up this relationship over this one. Yeah. Although they were under tremendous pressure. Right. Guy, these promoters. Oh,

Guy Zapolean  (00:58:57):

Oh. I mean, I'm trying to think of, of, uh, like I always remember Ben Scotty Oh. Who, like Scotty Brothers Toughest guys. And he would like, I mean, and Donnie Einer is another one who's kind of like, of that school that were very, very tough. Very tough. And you'd like, you, you know, they'd have you sweating bullets, like something might happen to you if you didn't go along. But you know, I mean mean, that's just not what we did. So Right. We stuck to our guns and, you know, I I wasn't always popular with everybody for doing it, but like you're saying, there was always another record that you could be playing that you could be helping them with.

Fritz Coleman (00:59:32):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and that kind of suggests a thing that makes me very sad about radio. When my, my first jobs were top 40 cont ch r Contemporary hit radio. And it was done by research and it was the top 40 popular songs, regardless of what genre they came from. Right. It was Pop Rock Country r and b Soul. And it didn't matter where, where they were, they would stack up in the, it was all G by sales, but you could have Johnny Cash following a James Brown record on Top 40 radio. And you got a little sampling of everything, which has also been my, uh, my, my sadness about late night television when Johnny Carson was on, um, you would get a little smattering of everything. For instance, he'd have Beverly Sills on one night as an opera singer, then he'd have a 14 year old violin virtuoso.


Then he'd have, you know, Carl Sagan talking really deep about, and you would learn a little bit about a whole lot of areas. And it was kind of like, it, it was the same philosophy as Top 40 radio. It was successful people in every genre. And it was really, uh, guy, it was the, it was the only way some American people were exposed to all these different genres. And it's the same way I feel about music. I feel sad that that's not there. Yeah. You listen to KISS FM and their whole hour is all our, uh, is all rap. Every single song is rap. There are no ballots. There's no, you know, I I'm sad that that's over.

Guy Zapolean  (01:00:54):

Yeah. It, it's unfortunately, um, uh, that lack of diversity, that lack of diversity of genre is just another one of the death of a thousand cuts. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, and, and there was a belief that you had to have a sound. So people started programming top 40, like a niche, like a niche. Instead of programming it, like what we grew up listening to, which was if it's a hit, if it's whatever it is, doesn't matter if it's country, it doesn't matter if it's, uh, you know, uh, gets and Gilberto doing the, you know, the girl from Ima <laugh>, if, if it's a top, if it's a top hit, then it's top 20, we're gonna play it. And they just don't do that anymore. It's, it's much more narrow cast. And I think that's a real problem too. In fact, I was even told at one time you couldn't play Ballads.


Now went and I would talk to my friend Mark Chase, who, who who, who's the head of, uh, um, iHeart's, um, you know, special ses special services and kind of does the, uh, the strategic, uh, strategic services I should say. Anyway, just, we just kind of laughed at he, you know, with each other going, you mean <laugh>? You've lost that love and feeling and, and you know, the, some of the greatest songs of all times are bows and you're not supposed to play them on Top 40 radio. Please. That's crazy. But they thought a slow song would make people tune out on the people meter.

Jhani Kaye  (01:02:18):

Well, and

Fritz Coleman (01:02:18):

Our, our Hot Clock, you could not play two balls together. You could never play two females together. Right.

Louise Lanker (01:02:23):

Yeah. Well back that always, that always, I always found that confounding when I worked at Kiss, you know, cuz I wrote for Rick D So I, I was friends with, uh, uh, gene Sam Bloom, the music director, and that, you know, the, you can't play, you can play two men back to back, but you can't play two women. You're a man programming that. Like, you don't want to hear that because something about the timber of a female voice. Johnny, please speak to this because I do not understand. Yeah, no, we, that never became a

Jhani Kaye  (01:02:49):

Rule. We had research, thank God it's changed now you hear a whole bunch of females in a row, oftentimes on your hot ACEs or ACEs, uh, radio stations. Uh, what they found was by playing air checks for people in focus groups that if you played two females in a row, you didn't lose the females, but you lost the male listeners. They started searching and they were button pushing. Really. And that's Guy, am I correct or or not? Do you recall

Guy Zapolean  (01:03:17):

That? Uh, that makes sense. Do you know what, like the dials when you could actually watch people following along mm-hmm. <affirmative> and if they punched out or uh, tuned out, they could, you know, tune down when they heard it. So Yeah. You could

Louise Lanker (01:03:28):

See. But there's something, there's something interesting about that too, because like, if you put in Pandora Sarah Burres, it's only gonna play female vocalist <laugh>. Okay. Like Sarah Burress, cuz she's a wonderful singer songwriter. You could play Crosby Stills and Nash with her, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you could play Carol King or, you know, you, you could play Kat Stevens. Why, what is it about women? Is it, is it mostly men that are making these decisions or is it based on like what you just said, guy, where they've done the research and they know that if you've made this selection, it's because you're a woman and you wanna only listen to women or something.

Guy Zapolean  (01:04:05):

Yeah. Re research, research can't tell you what you don't ask. Hmm. So, like Johnny said, if you don't qualify the question and you just sit there and you go, okay, well the men are turning out well, but is there some other factor that you're not even taking in, taking into consideration here? So, I mean, a lot of mistakes are done with made with research and, you know, so anyway, one actually one of the biggest, uh, again, out's something I didn't cover before. One of the biggest mistakes ever was this huge re huge research company, which will go un mentioned Frank

Jhani Kaye  (01:04:41):


Guy Zapolean  (01:04:41):

Decided <laugh> No, it was no, he, no it wasn't Frank Maggot,

Jhani Kaye  (01:04:45):

T R g

Guy Zapolean  (01:04:46):

<laugh>. It was, it was, um, it was done in the early two thousands. And they were, they decided that they needed to figure out what was, what was a problems radio was facing because radio was starting to, to dip a little bit. And they said, oh, we know what radio's problems are. They hate interruptions. Duh. You know, so, so they, and, and, and the geniuses said, yeah, well those interruptions are personalities too. And when they did that, they removed the talk from personality, said, oh, you gotta keep what you're saying down and don't, don't go do more than identify the song or, or whatever, or, you know, sell this or whatever.

Fritz Coleman (01:05:28):

Do your humor over the intro to a record. That's the drap.

Guy Zapolean  (01:05:31):

Don't, don't entertain, in other words. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> don't entertain the audience. And, um, and at that point, that decision from this major radio company made everybody follow along and the industry stopped investing and finding great personalities. It used to be an obsession. It's, it became, uh, you know, it became a, uh, um, an annoyance to them. And radio really hurt itself because frankly, that's the last best chance for radio to survive is great personalities, like Johnny was saying earlier, radio, you know, a great radio station and a great personality is their friend on the radio.

Louise Lanker (01:06:10):

So that, so that's one of the thousand cuts. But I it might be the deepest cut guy, because what you're saying is that research will say if you pull a person, oh yeah, I just want to hear the music. But what their, what their soul knows, but their mouth isn't saying is that I really like feeling like I'm a part of something. And so if you have the right personalities, I won't necessarily answer a poll to this effect, but if you have the right personalities, it's just a, it's just a, that I feel included and, and research would have you cut out something that's just intrinsically a part of why you're listening to the radio in the first place. So when a lot of, I think the great radio programming was done by gut, right? More than by Yeah. Yeah. Research.

Guy Zapolean  (01:06:54):

Absolutely. You,

Fritz Coleman (01:06:55):

You have a great thing in your presentation, uh, guy, uh, about the three phases of music and how long those phases last and when in a decade those phases

Louise Lanker (01:07:07):

Happen. The 10 year music cycle.

Fritz Coleman (01:07:09):

Yeah, it's fantastic. Talk

Louise Lanker (01:07:10):

About that. Talk about that. Yeah.

Guy Zapolean  (01:07:11):

Okay. Um, the music site, so years ago in 1990, radio really went through a bad time and my boss at Nationwide said, I want you to help now I want you to tell us what's wrong. You know, or if you have any ideas, you know, write 'em down. And I, um, I had been a chart fanatic, you know, from the time I was 14 years old. And I noticed a pattern with music. And that pattern was that in the middle of the decade, music was really pop. And that's when Elvis started in 56. That's when the Beatles started, 64, 65. That's when the album artists were really popular in the mid, in the mid seventies with Stevie Wonder, in the e you know, Eagles and Fleetwood Mac and all these great art and Rolling Stones, all these great art. And their music was very, was pop, you know, even though it was Rock the Stones were rock, it was a pop rock.


Um, you know, the Beatles was a pop rock. Um, and Stevie Wonder was pop r and b. So that would happen in the middle of every decade. And then for some strange reason, the, the, um, you know, it'd get it, something would happen where the music would get edgier. So in 1969, it went into acid rock, and it was Hendrix and all the album artists led Zeppelin started in 69. Um, and so that was the end of that decade. And in 1979, it was disco. So everything and, and not because the music itself was extreme, but the sheer amount of everything was disco. And then also the, the, also it was the beginning of punk too, since in seven, in 79. Um, and in 89 it's when hip hop started. And for a lot of people that was extreme. And it was also the same time as Guns and Roses and Metallica and, and all the, you know, the edgy rock started.


So the end of the decade was, was extreme. And that be, that's what I turned as the extremes. Then after that, the industry always over-corrected and said, oh God, we've lost our adults, we've gotta change. And that happened in the sixties, uh, for a different reason in 1960, because of the Paola hearings and every, everybody got nervous about playing music, um, and got very soft. But it happened in the early seventies with the singer songwriter music where everything got really, really soft. Ellen Reddy, Barry Manilow, um, carpenters, uh, and it happened in, um, in the early eighties with, you know, with uh, Neil Diamond or Barbara Streisand and, and during those periods of, and I called that the doldrums. Okay. And it was also usually a bad time for ratings for the radio stations too. Um, but country always seemed to rear its head and, and those doldrums periods too.


So you had Johnny Cash, um, I think it was ringing fire. And in seventies, in the mid, in the, in the, uh, in the early seventies, it was, um, you know, uh, in the early eighties it was Kenny Rogers and the Gambler and Urban Cowboy. So that pattern happened every decade. It was birth in the middle of the decade. It was extremes. The end of the decade. It was doldrums, usually at the beginning of the decade. And, um, and that was happening in the nineties, right after the extremes of 1989 with, you know, with, uh, guns and Roses and a lot of, and hip hop starting to become really popular. Uh, radio It radio embraced it and then it, um, and then it struggled with it because it lost its adults. So everybody freaked out. They said, we've gotta, we've gotta get our adults back super soft. Um, Gloria Estefan, Billy Joel, and then Radio Lost its younger end too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it lost its older end by going to Extreme and then it lost. Its young, it's older and, um, it, it's younger end in the early nineties. So long story short, um, they asked me to write about that and I did. And that's when I actually wrote my first Music Cycles article in,

Fritz Coleman (01:11:26):

Uh, that was fascinating. That was really, really interesting for those of us that have been around for a while. Oh,

Louise Lanker (01:11:32):

Thanks. Is it easier to program a, a, a hot AC when you, you know, that like, these are my parameters, this is what folks like and you don't have to worry about these extremes and trying to please everybody.

Jhani Kaye  (01:11:43):

You know, these companies that owned eight radio stations in a market mm-hmm. <affirmative> guy touched upon this earlier. We were told it's programmers stay in your lane. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So Coast might own Michael Bolton, but K Big, which was the hot AC and the next Step up on the dial was not allowed to touch that Michael Bolton song, no matter how big and massive it might become. Really? Yeah. And, and when I left, uh, K Earth Guy at the very end, I was being told that cuz I knew I it had to move. We had to move the target, not let people march through it. You can hold 25 54 and let your audience march through it or you can move with them. Mm. And I k Earth had always evolved. Um, and I knew we had to start adding eighties mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the feedback I would get is, Hey, you're stepping on Jack FM's territory, <laugh>, show me the list of the eighties you're adding and pull 'em off. And that's when I bail.

Fritz Coleman (01:12:47):

How do you explain the, the continuous success of Care Earth and Coast in this market? Everybody else is up and down. Everybody else's piece of the pie is getting smaller, but those two stations and coast, it might have something to do with playing Christmas music for seven and a half months every year.

Louise Lanker (01:13:03):

<laugh>, I think you can have 'em on, everyone agrees on the station at work and you can just have it on on. No,

Fritz Coleman (01:13:07):

That, that, that might be what it is. People being able to play it at work. That might be the answer to the question.

Guy Zapolean  (01:13:11):

That's Johnny's genius. That's John's We

Jhani Kaye  (01:13:14):

Were, like I said before, it's we were a companion. Right now, K Earth is just part of LA's dna. Oh yeah. Because of the dynamic duo of Bob Hamilton and Guy Napoleon. I mean they really knew how that fine tuned that and it's just in there and you want it. Yeah. Uh, when they moved it to eighties, that was a mass all eighties and, and some nineties. Yeah. There's

Fritz Coleman (01:13:38):

Seventies, eighties and nineties. They advertise it that way.

Guy Zapolean  (01:13:40):

Now you know what's so funny, Johnny? Is, is you're going, you know, that's your brilliance is understanding when it was time to evolve. And that's when I was at K Earth. Um, you know, we were, back then Kth was almost a hot AC cause it was playing current music, you know, the hits as well as older songs. But the older songs were probably at the most 20 years old. And that's a lot of what hot AC does today. Back then it was considered kind of bizarre that they did that. Anyway, so we were struggling in the ratings and Bob said, and uh, and we didn't, nobody was playing the mid sixties and Bob said to me, um, you know, uh, what are we gonna do guy? And I go, well, and I said, one thing we could do is on the weekends we could do these, these super sixties weekends.


Cuz I would go down into the record swat meets and I would bring my little cassette and I would play all my favorite songs, you know, uh, uh, you know, Stan Dells and things like that. And people would crowd around me at the, at the uh, at the, the record meet. And I would go, there's a fan base for this. I said, all these girls love this music. And he goes, well, you know, okay. So, so nobody in oldie radio, you know, cause we were still kind of considered had a foot in the oldies radio. Nobody was playing the mid sixties. Nobody. It was all, you know, it was all a softer music mix. And so we started playing the edgier rock songs in Know the Yardbirds and Sandels and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, as well as Supremes and everything else. But nobody was playing that music. Wow. Sixties were

Jhani Kaye  (01:15:10):

Huge. A coast one. What really kept us alive, I mean I remember the sales department put out a, a piece one time of all the call letters that tried to go after the adult audience against us and it filled a whole eight and a half by 11 piece of paper. Um, but what always put us over the top, the secret weapon was love songs. Mm-hmm.

Fritz Coleman (01:15:33):


Louise Lanker (01:15:33):

I forgot. And you had special

Jhani Kaye  (01:15:34):

Shows around it. That's what's kept, that has kept that station alive. And that's six

Fritz Coleman (01:15:39):

Second at night. Right? It's it's night. It's a nighttime.

Jhani Kaye  (01:15:41):

Well, well it sometimes it was six to midnight. It you went to 2:00 AM sometimes depending

Fritz Coleman (01:15:46):

When the overnight guy showed up for work. <laugh>.

Louise Lanker (01:15:49):

Well, we're gonna have to wrap things up. Oh man. But let's, before we, before we do, so, uh, uh, guy, is there any place that you'd like people to find you and, and Johnny same

Guy Zapolean  (01:15:58):

Find you? Well, I'm on Facebook. Okay. Um, I, I try not to post too much about politics cuz I, uh, I'll have my, my wife doesn't want me to do that, but I do it on my own pages. And um, so I'm on Facebook, but I'm also on uh, um, I have a website, uh, guys

Fritz Coleman (01:16:16):

Is your, um, PowerPoint presentation on your website. Is that for public consumption or not?

Guy Zapolean  (01:16:23):

Uh, you're welcome. Yeah. Yes.

Fritz Coleman (01:16:25):

I just found it re I i, maybe it's cuz I was in radio, but I think Weel agree. That was a really interesting piece of information. You'll

Louise Lanker (01:16:32):

Find a lot of it in the YouTube version of this very show.

Fritz Coleman (01:16:34):

Oh, there we go. <laugh>. Uhhuh. That's right.

Louise Lanker (01:16:36):

Johnny, where can folks find you <laugh>?

Jhani Kaye  (01:16:39):

Uh, I'm on Facebook, but I've, you know, the past 10 years of my life I've made a, you know, it's been my purpose to not be found <laugh>

Fritz Coleman (01:16:49):


Jhani Kaye  (01:16:51):

Sometimes when you hang it up. And you were talking earlier, one last point Yeah. About music and I've given this advice to so many of my air talents who have left or at been asked to leave their radio positions. <laugh>. Don't listen to it anymore. I only listen to news and talk

Fritz Coleman (01:17:08):

Radio now. Yeah, you're on the news. I find out the news from you now, now that I'm out of <laugh>.

Louise Lanker (01:17:13):

Yeah. All right. Well I would like to thank both of you for being here and here come our closing credits. Thank you so much for joining us. We would love to continue this conversation with you on Instagram and Twitter or we are at Media Path Pot. Oh, wait, Fri Fritz was gonna read something so I

Fritz Coleman (01:17:28):

Was gonna read, but I can do it after the credit. I don't wanna ruin the flow of

Louise Lanker (01:17:30):

Credits. No, no, no. The music comes in over the credits

Fritz Coleman (01:17:32):

Because you always add people with the credits that I don't even know and I always look forward to who's gonna be

Louise Lanker (01:17:36):

Shown up there. <laugh>. Yep. So go ahead.

Fritz Coleman (01:17:37):

All right, here we go. You know, we're very proud of these contests we do where we're giving away product, as they say in the business. And here is a, here is a a a a a great email we got from Kelly Conway, who is Tim Conway's daughter that wrote a fantastic book about her dad and her relationship

Louise Lanker (01:17:52):

With No, it's from someone who won the book.

Fritz Coleman (01:17:53):

No, I know that. But, but we got it. Didn't we get it from Kelly or did we get it from the person? Okay, well, whoever we

Louise Lanker (01:17:57):

Got it from, it's from a happy, satisfied prize winner.

Fritz Coleman (01:18:00):

Right. Anyway, here we go. We received some great feedback from Elise, a media path listener and giveaway winner, one of the several books that we're included in the prize. She won My Dad's Funnier than your dad growing up with Tim Conway in the Funniest House in America by Kelly Conway. Elise has graciously allowed us to share her thoughts and will read a few excerpts right now. It was a 14 page diatribe and we've whittled it down to these few words

Louise Lanker (01:18:26):

Longer than Kelly's book, which was impressive.

Fritz Coleman (01:18:28):

I have to tell you that I'm reading Kelly Conway's book and when I first picked it up, the first chapter about her forced separation from her father during his final days and his death made me so sad that I wasn't sure I was really gonna enjoy it. Then I returned to it and it is like plunging back into my youth. I grew up in the valley, spent summers outside, went to Sportsman's Lodge, went to high school with guys Napoleon at Birmingham, <laugh>,

Louise Lanker (01:18:54):

Oh wait a minute. Want a car

Fritz Coleman (01:18:56):

With grandparents? Walked the elementary school down the street and certainly my father was not Tim Conway, but the little wisdoms that her father imparted reminded me of the small nuggets that my father gave to me. All this to say, I picked up Kelly's book expecting to read about her father, which of course I did. However, her writing evoked a remembrance of things passed and I sank into my childhood and visited my old haunts and saw my parents. Again, it's not just the lay of the land that was familiar, so that drew me in. So a satisfied customer. All that to say, and we're launching our holiday giveaway this week, folks in our Facebook gr, although Johnny would say never say folks, say you like you're talking to one person, okay. In our Facebook group Media Path podcast with Fritz and Wheezy Facebook community and you could be the next winner when you join us there. The upcoming prize will include books like Joyce Chopra's, lady Director, fantastic book, and honest to God, one of the funniest books I've ever read. Liz esr, stay at Work, mom Among Others, please sign up. It's The Media Path Podcast with Fritz and Weezy Facebook community. It's a very elite group, so join now while we still have

Louise Lanker (01:20:03):

Openings, we have some openings for you. Thank you so much for joining us. We would love to, to continue this conversation with you on Instagram and Twitter where we are at Media Path Pod and on Facebook where our show page is Media Path Podcast and our Facebook group is as Fritz just mentioned, media Path with Fritz and Weezy podcast community. You can find full video podcast episodes loaded with guys, Napoleon's PowerPoint presentation and bonus visual content on our YouTube channel Media Path podcast. You can write to us at media path podcast If you enjoy this episode, if you enjoy this show in general, please give us a five star rating and Apple Podcast and write a review that uses words like brilliant and groundbreaking <laugh> when you talk about us. Please do that and we will greatly appreciate it and send you like a book or something. You can sign up for our Fun and dishy We wanna thank our wonderful guests, guys, Napoleon and Johnny k our team includes Dina Friedman, John Maddox, Sherin Beo, bill Fiac, Thomas Hubble, Mason Brown, Garrett Arch, and you. Our theme music is by me and John Maddox. I am Louise Lanker here with Fritz Coleman. Be well and wise and we will see you along the media path.

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